After a day or two of yelling at Jonah to get a job, he sauntered into a couple of restaurants into town and got a job in fifteen minutes. The bum. I’m not sure if it’s a full employment moment or it was good timing or it was big green eyes and blond hair.
Anyway, he’s working at a fancy brick oven place where all the ingredients are in Italian and the prosciutto is sourced from a small village in Northern Italian where they only feed their animals acorns or something. He loves it. In between clearing tables, he vapes in the back alley with the tattooed, bearded waiters. So proud.
Anyway, let’s see what’s going on before I have to drive Ian to his jazz drum lessons. Hmmmm…
Of course, there’s the ongoing insanity in Washington. I still can’t believe our country is being run by the Insane Clown Posse.
How to live on a $25 per hour job in New York City? Get lots of help from the parents! (I had to google Brazilian Sugaring.) (And she goes to Equinox! Ugh. She roughing it!) LINK FIXED
Cities are taking the lead on universal Pre-K.
Apt. 11d 
The job market is VERY strong. Two data points:
My wife noted that J. Crew is hiring black people, which they did not used to do. (I don’t make the news, I just report.)
My wife also works as a deaconess. Every single one of her clients has now gotten a job, and the diaconate has nothing to deal with except the congregants’ spiritual problems.
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I also am hearing of strong job markets — a friend of my kiddo’s is working at Office Depot. But let’s credit J’s experience as well.
So, is he really vaping, and are you at a stage when that’s not your business? My 17yo was imagining getting to be treated as an adult when she turns 18. I’m not seeing it yet, but that is the world of growing up. A 56 year old friend of mine, who grew his hair long 35 years ago, and his mom has been complaining every time she saw him says she’s finally given up. I hope I’ll be better, but I’m not going to change when she turns 18.
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So, is he really vaping, and are you at a stage when that’s not your business?
The day my kids start vaping is the day they figure out how to fund their own college expenses and I get to take some really nice vacations.
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Jay said,
“The day my kids start vaping is the day they figure out how to fund their own college expenses and I get to take some really nice vacations.”
I don’t think I’d go that far, but I hear you.
I would treat vaping or smoking (like tattoo acquisition) as a sign that kid has too much disposable income.
(It’s fairer to announce this in advance, of course.)
I believe there’s a Robin Williams line about how cocaine is God’s way of telling you you have too much money. Same deal.
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Ditto riding on motorcycles.
What is the point of paying for college for a kid who is willfully endangering their brain and spinal cord function and life?
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(It’s fairer to announce this in advance, of course.)
If they aren’t smart enough to figure this out on my own then they aren’t smart enough to go to college.
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My #2 vapes, and we are still paying his full fare. We express our disappointment and soldier on.
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My #2 ate fruit loops this morning. I’m not kicking him out of the house either. I did tell him that even if he is self-supporting and officially grown up, I’m going to complain about the fruit loops.
I’m incredibly straight-laced, but vaping (or even smoking) would not result in withdrawal of support in my house (as long as it wan’t done at my house).
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Hah. When I was in my 20s and childless, I remember an actual parent of tween twins telling a group of 20 somethings who were parenting theoretical children (“I would never let my child do . . . .) say that when we had them, we’d parent the children we actually had. Because, they’d be people we loved with minds of their own.
I sometimes refer to financial dependency (i.e paying for college), but it is to remind my child that they aren’t independent actors, yet, if they are financially dependent. I’m guessing finances would be limited usefulness for controlling most behaviors in my kids, and that the behavior would have to be pretty destructive before not paying for college would be a real option rather than a empty threat.
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I’m guessing finances would be limited usefulness for controlling most behaviors in my kids, and that the behavior would have to be pretty destructive before not paying for college would be a real option rather than a empty threat.
Yes, well, my statement was possibly hyperbolic and vaping probably wouldn’t rise to the level of poor judgement that would cause me to pull my tuition support. Probably.
But still. If we are going to be investing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in our kids’ education they had better form and display enough judgement and discernment on their end to take advantage of it. Otherwise, they can spend a gap year or two working in a warehouse or a supermarket or a restaurant learning to appreciate the opportunities that are being presented to them.
I remember that Laura posted a few months ago about parents who were struggling with their kids using and dealing drugs out of their house. They responded with these pathetic negative reinforcement techniques like smashing bongs with hammers. (What’s up with that? Were they really stupid enough to think even for a second that this would have any effect at all? A top decile household income is really wasted on some undeserving occupiers of space.) They seemed desperate to limp across the finish line and pack their kids off to college. As if that would help. If my kids were in that situation the *last* thing I would do is cut a huge check for college tuition and send them on their way. I’d tell them it was the warehouse or the military or the community college under some other roof until they got their head on straight and that their college fund would be waiting for them if they did. Not to punish them, but because they are obviously not ready to have that kind of investment poured into them.
And does forming a vaping habit rise to that level of poor judgement. It is an especially tacky and sordid cousin to taking up smoking, which is itself a gross display of immaturity and poor judgement. But still, probably not. (Probably.) But dealing drugs out of the home, arrests for public drunkenness, etc? That’s a gap year. Or more, if they can’t sort themselves out.
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The military is not an option. They don’t want your drug using kid.
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My kids are now old enough to discuss such things. At some point, they are adults, and deserve to be treated as such. Everyone learns more from mistakes than from lectures. They point out to me, “do you think we’d be stupid enough to tell you we were (doing bad habit)?” And, “You know, knowing something is forbidden tends to make it more attractive.”
They roll their eyes when I give them the advice, “don’t do that.” (fill in a blank for that–over-pluck eyebrows, become addicted to opioids, forget to floss/wear sunscreen, give passwords to friends, get married too young, whatever.) However, I don’t tell them, “don’t do ___” in the belief that they’ll nod and follow orders. It is important that they know that their parents do care that they make good decisions.
Frankly, there have been Very Bad Outcomes in our town and extended circle of acquaintances. Those tragedies have been _much more effective_ in discouraging bad behavior than any lectures from us.
And for us, as parents, our oldest is now employed, independent, self-supporting, happy, making plans for the future, and occasionally takes time to visit us. That’s enough. There’s a point at which we just count our blessings. If our kids were to vape (they aren’t, as far as we know, but hypothetically), that would be an item to discuss, rather than something over which to issue threats. To me, severe threats like making college financially impossible is best saved for a situation in which you need to save that money for rehab, a lawyer, or to provide for an unplanned grandchild.
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Cranberry said,
“Everyone learns more from mistakes than from lectures.”
And the absolute best is other people’s mistakes…
“Frankly, there have been Very Bad Outcomes in our town and extended circle of acquaintances. Those tragedies have been _much more effective_ in discouraging bad behavior than any lectures from us.”
Yeah.
“And for us, as parents, our oldest is now employed, independent, self-supporting, happy, making plans for the future, and occasionally takes time to visit us. That’s enough.”
Yep. And an excellent example to younger children.
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. To me, severe threats like making college financially impossible is best saved for a situation in which you need to save that money for rehab, a lawyer, or to provide for an unplanned grandchild.
It has nothing to do with making threats. It has to do with whether they would be in a position to take advantage of this expensive opportunity. I was being hyperbolic about the vaping but if my kids were (say) messing around with opiates or adderall stolen out of medicine cabinets or something, the last thing I am going to do is pack them off to college and hope they straighten themselves out there. I *went* to college and I remember the number of my classmates who dropped out because they had to concentrate more on their baggage and overcoming their immaturity than the task at hand. They would have been better off waiting tables or working light industrial for a year while they figured things out. Given that they will have one chance to go to college with our financial support, why would I put them in a position to fail at it?
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Depends on whether or not it was my Adderall, I guess. I knew plenty of people who drank their way to a suspension at college, but they all graduated. And tuition was like $3,000/year, so the damage was smaller.
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Jay said,
“It has nothing to do with making threats. It has to do with whether they would be in a position to take advantage of this expensive opportunity. I was being hyperbolic about the vaping but if my kids were (say) messing around with opiates or adderall stolen out of medicine cabinets or something, the last thing I am going to do is pack them off to college and hope they straighten themselves out there. I *went* to college and I remember the number of my classmates who dropped out because they had to concentrate more on their baggage and overcoming their immaturity than the task at hand. They would have been better off waiting tables or working light industrial for a year while they figured things out. Given that they will have one chance to go to college with our financial support, why would I put them in a position to fail at it?”
I can think of one rather painful example of a young person who flailed around at college for way too long. Seven years, no degree, and a whole lot of very serious problems picked up during the course of the years spent flailing around.
I have to agree with Jay that when the problems are bad enough, college isn’t the solution.
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It all comes down to whether not going to college is a temporary or a forever thing, though. Assuming the child could complete a BA or associate’s degree, of course.
During the year of “light industrial” work or waiting tables, that young adult may develop a significant other, and maybe even a grandchild. The young adult might develop *new* drug habits. In which case a short detour becomes a new trajectory.
My thinking was influenced by talking with someone who’s an officer in the armed forces. He pointed out that many young people enlist with an eye on the financial benefits; many of them are derailed by marriage and children. Returning to college comes to represent a financial sacrifice for the enlisted person’s family, in comparison to re-enlisting.
I’m also seeing different styles of parenting. A cousin is a “my way or the highway” father. (I think that’s his family’s style.) He and his siblings rebelled against their father, and I can see some of his children following the same pattern. It’s hard to negotiate and discuss issues when faced with decrees.
Some lifestyle choices are more influenced by peers than parents. All of my relatives in my parents’ generation smoked cigarettes at some point, and drank martinis. None of my relatives in my generation or younger smoke cigarettes or drink martinis. That wasn’t the result of dire threats, but rather differences between generations.
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LOL, strong job markets. Why do I know so many unemployed people then?
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Send them to our diaconate!
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1. Location, location, location
2. Your acquaintances are looking for quality jobs which pay upper-middle wages? Those are in short supply.
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Anecdotally, I’ve been casually looking around at job ads. I have given myself a spring deadline to decide if I want to keep writing or go do some policy/foundation work instead. And there are a ton of jobs ads on LinkedIn. I’m not sure how well they pay or whether they’ll actually hire an old girl like me, but I was quite excited by all the opportunities. Maybe it’s a NYC thing.
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Worth parsing if there really aren’t jobs as reported by Wendy — I noted the increased employment opportunities for the “traditional” summer jobs in retail/services for teens. Y81 is reporting more broad (I think) employment opportunities in NYC. Laura, in higher level jobs in the NYC met area. Is it location? type of jobs?
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I hope my neighbor who drives a duck boat for a living doesn’t get laid off after all the deaths in Missouri. I’m very sure he’s the kind of guy who wouldn’t go out without looking at the forecast.
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