I'm fascinated by David Foster Wallace, even though I have never read his books. I'm shallow like that.
How male scientists balance work and family. Highly recommend this one.
The new accent coming from the Northern states.
22 thoughts on “Spreadin’ Love 510”
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Apt. 11d 
“[I]t appears that men overemphasize their wifeās decision as a ‘choice,’ when in reality their wifeās choice to care for the children is constrained by her husbandās schema of children as primarily āher issue,ā ā the authors write.
I’m sure this is completely true, but I don’t really know how you avoid it. A couple both “want” kids, but the husband says he is not willing to sacrifice his career at this time, so wife’s “choice” is either to put off having children, or else be the primary childcare provider.
Giving those options, primary childcare provider may be the “best choice,” especially when you add the fact the wife is time-constrained (fertility dropping as she approaches/ passes 30), while husband can always go for a trophy wife in 10-20 years.
So, while I completely see what the author is getting at, I don’t know how you avoid it. All “free choices” are somewhat constrained. You freely choose a school out of the ones that accept you and that you can afford, and that are have given characteristics that can’t be changed. Do you say, “I freely chose to go to Carnegie Mellon over CalTech, because CM offered me a great scholarship and have a great program I’m interested in!” or do you say, “CalTech refused to move across the country and lower its tuition and offer the robotics course I wanted, so I was forced to settle for Carnegie Mellon against my will”?
Overall, the article was more interesting as a meditation on free will, than a news article about male parents in the sciences.
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Aah, but check out Laura’s link to the news article on age/risk of autism/schizophrenia. Fascinating, scientifically. I remember when the first data on paternal age came out — studies in Israel, if I remember. At the time, I wondered whether the main effect was that men with subthreshold autism (i.e. subthreshold in the sense that they were still employed) were more likely to reproduce later.
This data suggests a biological explanation (increasing probability of de nova mutations in the sperm cell line), also bringing together the data about de nova v. inherited mutations.
(and, a reason why the men can’t wait for the trophy wife with impunity)
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(and, a reason why the men can’t wait for the trophy wife with impunity)
It’s never too late for a trophy wife if you don’t want more children.
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Asked, āDo you think that having children then is difficult to manage with being a scientist?ā one physicist said, āNo, absolutely not. Thatās why you have a wife.ā
That speaks volumes, doesn’t it? I was also saddened by the very high percentage of male academics in the traditionalist or neo-traditionalist groups. Obviously, in these guys’ minds, if you’re not willing to sacrifice not only a lot of your life but your partner’s as well, how much of a ‘real academic’ are you?
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I’m in the middle of “The Pale King” right now. Love it, although I am not sure I truly understand at least a quarter of it….
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My review of the DFW book of essays would have been titled, “A Supposedly Good Author I’ll Never Read Again.”
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Doug – I completely agree. Bleah.
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That’s not true. The nonfiction was great.
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Speaking of the sort of science and family life, when my husband was a kid, he was asked about having a family. He said in reply, “I will marry science!” (Science is feminine in Polish, which is the language the conversation was in.) In his particular case, things cooled off between him and science, but for a lot of men, science is their first and most ardent love.
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I’m currently working with a young woman, a computer scientist, who talks openly about wanting to marry someone who can cook for her and take care of the home front. Her personality type is more geared towards work, she sees no problem with it. I urged her to find a musician. š
Seriously – take away “the female in the couple must be the one to stay home” aspect of this and I accept this. Work in the modern world is increasingly specialized and this is no exception. Frankly I worry more about the fact that (middle class?) parenting itself is becoming semi-professionalized, with large time commitments and specialized knowledge required.
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Seriously – take away “the female in the couple must be the one to stay home” aspect of this and I accept this.
Well, that’s the million dollar question. The risks inherent in being a SAHM spending years out of the job market don’t suddenly go away if exactly half of the SAHMs are SAHDs.
In theory, it should be equally bad to have an equal number of people marginalized from the work force. In practice, I assume that any time a group obtains a critical mass of men, that group stops being marginalized and starts obtaining rights, so time out of the workforce will stop being stigmatized if lots of men do it too.
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“In practice, I assume that any time a group obtains a critical mass of men, that group stops being marginalized and starts obtaining rights, so time out of the workforce will stop being stigmatized if lots of men do it too.”
I have my doubts. With men, much more so than with women, it’s not unlikely that a stretch as a SAHP is a cover story for mental illness, disability, lengthy unemployment, orneriness and/or general unemployability. (The two SAHDs I’ve known very well were (in the first case) mentally ill and ornery and (in the second case) ornery and physically disabled enough and unable to follow his profession. The first guy’s mental illness only manifested clearly during his time at home with his kid and his wife eventually divorced him.) It’s not a very PC thing to say, but I think that SAHDs are much more likely than SAHMs to have something seriously wrong with them.
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The mentally ill guy’s wife initially was thrilled at having snagged a sensitive new age husband who wanted to stay home with their kid while she pursued her career, but being the breadwinner got old within several years. She was also very naturally fearful about leaving her child alone with a guy with anger and impulse control problems.
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Went to a lecture the other day by a woman who is a fairly high ranking military officer. Her husband is a nurse and he raised their kids. They are mid-40’s. Thinking that might have been an unusual choice 15 or 20 years ago, but it seems to have worked out for all. It put them in a position where she could take interesting assignments in places that offered advancement potential and he could go along and find a job at their new location. My sense is that she’s really Type A and he’s a lot more mellow and laidback. Interesting couple — neither one appeared to have that much ego or to take themselves that seriously. Fascinating!
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bj,
My best friend’s uncle married and had a child fairly late in life (early 50s), and his son is still very young but appears to have at least moderate autism. Interestingly, the uncle’s siblings (my friend’s father and aunt) both think he is probably somewhere on the autism spectrum himself, and were surprised that he eventually found someone willing to marry him.
Since it’s a newer diagnosis and family size has plummeted this might be hard, but a way to control for subclinical autism on the part of the father leading to later reproduction would be to look at fathers who reproduce for the first time late in life vs. fathers who start earlier and continue into/past middle age and see if there are any significant differences in autism rates among children conceived when the father was at a similar age.
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I know a LOT of SAHDs. They’re all normal, Amy. It’s not an uncommon lifestyle choice around here, where there are so many people (both men and women) in high level careers that require a SAHP.
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My brother-in-law is a SAHD. His work didn’t have health insurance.
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“I know a LOT of SAHDs. They’re all normal, Amy”
I don’t know that I’d give a clean bill of health to any large group of people so easily. (I have at least one SAHM friend who likes her red wine a bit too much.) You’d have to know somebody pretty well to know that he was normal and doing fine, especially not having the advantage of time and hindsight in seeing how the marriage and the kid-raising turned out.
On the other hand, my examples are from a somewhat older generation (a 50-something and a 60-something), so it’s quite possible that the new guys are different.
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Head banging against desk.
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Heck – anyone can choose to be a stay at home spouse if the circumstances are right (kids optional). I’m working abroad right now and my husband is a “trailing spouse,” since this country will not give him the right to work.
While we are a less common scenario (wife works, husband trails), we have numerous friends who have a non-working spouse with no kids. It is a sacrifice to the trailing spouse’s career — but you get to live in W.Europe. There are always trade offs.
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One imagines that in any case where there is an overwhelming cultural norm, anyone who is an exception to that norm is going to be so for “weird” reasons — either their situation is weird or he is weird.
When I referred to a “critical mass of men,” I was assuming that the world was not an inverse of Lake Woebegone where all the fathers are below average. When an “average” dad wants to switch to part-time work for a few years, and then return to full-time when the kid is in kindergarten, then being part-time for a few years will no longer be considered a career detriment.
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I have several examples in my milliu of SAHDS (usually at least partially employed, but occasionally retired, either early or on time). They are all peculiar, in some sense, but only in ordinary ways (for example, the youngest with older sisters, or so successful so young that no one would question their alpha status, or enjoying a family after early retirement). None of them are mentally ill. Also, except for the retired/semi-retired, also cycling in and out of the market, in consulting, returning to work, or free-lancing (more so, than the SAHMs in my circle, who are more likely to volunteer, or do art, or otherwise fill their time).
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