There was a blog quarrel yesterday between Belle Waring, Kevin Drum, and Megan McArdle yesterday. Life is too short to read all the relevant posts and the comment sections to catch up, so I won't. I just wanted to point out an observation by Waring about being a chick in Manhattan in the 70s and 80s.
Especially considering that Megan grew up in New York City in the 70s and 80s, which means I am morally certain some dude has flashed her, or masturbated next to her on the subway, or done something equally unwelcome. How not? (I have experienced all these things, and more! Ask me about the time the cops told me the man hassling me was a convicted sex offender who had forcibly raped at least 6 women, and I was “an idiot” because I returned idle pleasantries, in a deflecting way, on the BART. It was apparently my duty to remain silent at all times.) But then, she doesn’t mention it, so perhaps she was weirdly lucky in this regard. Really weirdly lucky.
I spent a good deal of time in the city in high school. I would take the bus at the end of my block into 178th Street and then take the A train down to West 4th to shop or hang out. Sometimes with friends. Sometimes just on my own. After college, I moved into the city.
And all that groping and jerking off and rubbing and flashing and other nasty business happened all the time. Oddly, I never told my parents about it. I never yelled at the guy or made a scene. I just kinda edged away and pretended that it wasn't happening.
If I had a daughter, I would tell her how to handle that crap.
Apt. 11d 
Oh boy. And this is why I’ll probably be all freaked out as my family of four girls visits NYC this summer!
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And this is why I’ll probably be all freaked out as my family of four girls visits NYC this summer!
Well, if it’s any consolation, NY City is the safest big city in the US, and much safer now than it was when Laura, Bella, etc. were growing up. In the two years fairly recently that my wife and I lived there, she experienced no groping or things similar. (She did not like to walk down 125th st. on her own in the evening, and for good reason, as the “cat calling” got too much. Even I didn’t like walking there at night on the weekend- too many drunk people- but she never had any of these problems.) I expect that as a nice family together of tourists, your daughters will be just fine.
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Please tell your boys how to handle that crap. Not everyone is going for the girls.
And in Toronto it might not have been quite so widespread, but for sure I experienced some of them.
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Your girls will be fine. As Matt said, NYC in the early 80s was rough. I would step over junkies passed out on the sidewalk as I went to poetry slams in the East Village. Dance clubs would let us in when we were 16, so I was hanging out after dark in rough neighborhoods. I can’t think of the last time that someone told me about seeing a flasher. Has flashing gone out of style?
But the lesson from DSK is that creeps can be found anywhere and creeps come from all socio-economic groups. I think it’s a good idea to show your girls how to protect themselves anywhere, not just in NYC.
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Has flashing gone out of style?
Cellphone cameras and harsh sentences for a sex offense that involves minors?
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Happened in Vancouver in the 1980’s too. Think me in my old corporate career walking down a busy street at lunch. Shops, restaurants, and pedestrians were lawyers, business people, office workers, etc. I’m in a business suit walking with two friends. As a guy in a suit walked past facing me with his two friends he reaches out and grabs me (one on each colloquially speaking). He laughs.
I was in my early 20’s and it was YEARS before I realized how inappropriate that was or that it was an assault.
On another note, I’ve been to NYC over 20 times, been all over manhattan at various times of the day and night and only once felt scared. Pretty safe city as long as you are aware and walk around with a certain amount of disdain on your face. People are pretty friendly too.
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How should one handle it? Seeking confrontation with the unbalanced isn’t always the right answer.
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“Has flashing gone out of style?”
These days, a six-time rapist would probably still be in prison.
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Maybe not for much longer in California…
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What would you tell her?
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I would tell her that there are occasions when it’s ok to be loud and yell and tell people to fuck off. My mother never told me that. It took me a really long time to learn to do that.
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I thought of this, in its milder form, with the IMF and Strauss-Kahn. I gave my 4th grader and her friends a lecture about sexual harrasment, and realized that my “over reaction” was the recognition that unwanted attention was so rampant in male dominated environments that I’d built up significant sensitivities (the tech who’d only run your samples if you smiled and flirted; the professor that all women were warned about; the conversations about how to protect the female grad students from the predators at the conference; the conversation with the research tech about whether a post-doc was making inappropriate advances; the vulgur password — in a language you didn’t understand . . . . yup, I guess I should stop now, though the list is endless).
I teach my daughter to be loud and complain, and not to worry if that means that people call her a sanctimonious feminist.
Matt — go ask your wife if she’s really never been groped on public transportation or in a public place. I don’t know that I’ve ever met a woman who hasn’t (except the ones who don’t go to public places unescorted).
I do think treating flashing as a sex crime, and one difficult to defend against has changed flashing behavior.
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It’s not just major cities. I can remember being flashed twice in grade school in Ohio. My friends and I laughed and ran away.
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“Matt — go ask your wife if she’s really never been groped on public transportation or in a public place. I don’t know that I’ve ever met a woman who hasn’t (except the ones who don’t go to public places unescorted).”
I used to ride public transportation a lot and I’ve never been groped or flashed. Of course, it’s also true that nobody ever tries to give me parenting advice, so I may just have “the look” that makes strangers avoid crossing me. Also, I’m slightly younger than some of you guys, so I may have just missed the golden age of the flasher.
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There was a blog post on the subject floating around my facebook friends just over a month ago:
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