Dangerous Commenters

Amy P pointed me to a ruckus at Judith Warner's blog yesterday. Warner discusses an incident where a woman was arrested for leaving her 12 year old girls in charge of three small kids at a mall. The woman said that she was being unfairly targeted because she was a college professor. Middle America doesn't like educated women. Warner agrees and gave a five paragraph rant. Her commenters, many of whom were women professors, went to town on her for a range of reasons. Worth a quick skim.

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41 thoughts on “Dangerous Commenters

  1. This is the key passage:
    Now, we can debate until we’re blue in the face whether or not Kevane should have left those three young children alone with the 12-year-olds. The pre-teens in question, it seems pretty clear, didn’t have the maturity to be entrusted with the care of younger kids; despite what Kevane calls their solid “experience” babysitting, they ditched their charges in the purse section by the cosmetics counter in Macy’s while they went off to try on some shirts, setting off the whole sorry adventure with law enforcement.
    That still doesn’t mean that Kevane’s error in judgment adds up to anything like child endangerment.

    The final sentence is quite bizarre. Malls are surrounded by parking lots which are surrounded by roads. Department stores have escalators, as well as numerous large objects that only don’t fall because nobody pulls them. A lone 3 year old can damage him or herself in no time. Leave kids in the charge of a 12 year old — or even a 15 year old — and you are responsible for having judged them responsible.

  2. I’m sorry every time I look at Judith Warner’s blog. It almost always is able to take serious issues and cloud them and turn them into a muddle, this being a fine example. I don’t know that the woman in question should have been arrested. I’m even somewhat skeptical of it. But her story was an awfully poor one to illustrate a reasonable point, as she was clearly in the wrong and did something fairly dumb, dangerous, and selfish, and, most importantly, the story contained no significant evidence to substantiate the claim of the post. So, the potentially interesting and important point is lost by being tied to the seemingly irrelevant story. This sort of incoherence is what I usually find on Warner’s blog, making me always sorry when I read it. (I usually try to avoid it, but this time I didn’t realize it was her until I’d already clicked on the link. Hoping it might be useful, I read on, to my dismay.)

  3. I currently spend a large part of my time keeping a three-year-old from damaging himself or others. I don’t see how a 12 year old could manage with that in a public place.

  4. To clarify, three of the kids were Kevane’s and her two oldest kids each had a friend along for the trip, so if Kevane was feeling overwhelmed, she had the option of sending two of the children back home. I wonder if the friends’ parents understood exactly what the mall plan was.

  5. I used to own a retail business. I rarely let my 12 year olds got shopping by themselves, let alone be in charge of younger siblings. Kids and stores don’t mix. Retailers get nervous about shoplifting, damage to merchandise, etc. Want your kid to get in trouble? Leave them in a store alone.
    She made a dumb choice. She didn’t deserve to be arrested though. A stern talking to would’ve been sufficient in my opinion. It seems that the prosecution was overzealous. I have no idea if it was because of this particular woman, or because of a prejudice of her class, education, etc.
    It seems like a stretch to me. Warner likely could’ve found a better example for her argument.

  6. I agree that arrest was overdoing it. But the idea that her social status caused her arrest flies in the face of absolutely everything that we know about the relationship between social status and arrests.

  7. ” Leave kids in the charge of a 12 year old — or even a 15 year old — and you are responsible for having judged them responsible.”
    How about if you left them w/ an 18 year old? a 21 year old? Who did exactly the same thing these 12 year olds did? I used to be the oldest child of a group of 8-13 year olds who hung out at a swimming pool over the summer. We would all bike up there together, and spend the day there. I don’t think I was officially in charge, and we were always able to take care of ourselves, and nothing ever happened. But, would our parents have been guilty of “child endangerment” if one of us had gotten hit by a car on the way to the pool?
    I don’t buy the “educated woman” prejudice argument here — I think that it’s overly protective child-raising practices in general. I also think that people who run public places are worried about this scenario because they’re worried that *they’ll* be held responsible if the situation goes awry. And, they don’t want to end up babysitting the three year old when someone is irresponsible, as in this case.
    How old do you have to be to be alone in a mall or library? And, how old do you have to be to be in charge of someone else? and how young can that other child be? I guess there might be legal answers to these questions, but I don’t really accept the notion that because the kids were noticed, there was endangerment.

  8. A lot of stores have signs up saying that children under 16 have to be accompanied by an adult. That’s going a bit far, but as Lisa V mentions, shoplifting and damage to merchandise (breakage, stains from sticky fingers) are a real issue.
    “A stern talking to would’ve been sufficient in my opinion.”
    I don’t know about that. Note that Kevane still hasn’t figured out that she screwed up, despite police involvement, court, and sentencing to parenting classes. And she also hasn’t figured out that she got off really easy thanks to her social status. As a number of the Warner commenters said, less well-connected mothers would find themselves having to prove parental fitness before they got their children back again.

  9. In your case, bj, it depends on how busy the streets were (traffic) and whether you were accomplished swimmers. Swimming pools are death traps, as are roads. There’s a huge difference, though, between an 8 year old and a 3 year old, esp in a parking lot where a driver backing up looking through a mirror will see an 8 year old but not a 3 year old (unless the 8 year old is midget or the 3 year old a giant).
    I leave my (nearly) 3 year old awake in the house with a 12 and a 13 year old sometimes. I do so because I know the 13 year old is supremely responsible, and the 12 year old (who is mine) will be responsible as long as she’s with the 13 year old. I would not leave them together in a mall; and no responsible 13 year old would allow me to do so (with my particular 3 year old). One time I left him asleep with the 12 year old, who, when he awoke, gave him a candy on which he only did not choke to death because she has learned the Heimlich manouvre. If he had died, I think it is entirely reasonable to hold me responsible, both for the harm to him and to the devastating harm to her.
    I agree that children should have more freedom to than they do, and people are, in some ways, overly protective (not when it comes to driving, I note — people recklessly let their 15 and 16 year olds drive, despite it being much more risky to them and others than letting them sleep on their stomachs, drinking moderately during preganancy, etc). But busy public places are dangerous to small beings who do not have the judgement to avoid danger, and in an individualist and child-ignoring culture in which you cannot expect unrelated adults to be on the lookout for the wellbeing of stary children.
    As a parent you are basically responsible for choosing responsible carers, and if your carers turn out to be irresponsible (whatever age) you take the responsibility for that. I presume your parents knew that (if the 13 year old around my house were my daughter, I’d let her do what your parents let you do).

  10. Speaking of libraries, my mom once dropped my 3-year-old sister and I off for a library puppet show when I was about 6 or 7 (the grocery store was across the street, so I bet that’s where my mom was). The puppets performed a Shel Silverstein poem about the Gypsies coming to town to buy children, fat ones, skinny ones, etc. Younger sister had an epic freak out. Subsequently, the library changed its policy on allowing children in without parents. Coincidence?
    Nothing terrible happened during the library episode, but I obviously wouldn’t have had any clue what to do if younger sister had needed the bathroom or had a potty accident, and it would have been very unfair to the library personnel.
    On yet another occasion when I was about the same age or younger, my mom had me dress my younger sister for church. After we got to church, my mom discovered that I had forgotten to put on younger sister’s underpants. I was quite a bit more responsible with my baby brother when I was a tween, although nobody ever turned me loose at the mall with him.

  11. Well, I have to agree that the addition of the 3 year old makes this something I wouldn’t do. But, I would do the 12 year old + 8 year old (and, thinking about it, I have. I sent my 12 year old niece + 8 year old daughter into a grocery store to do their own shopping for a family event. My daughter was superbly pleased at having had the opportunity — she came back saying “You know, if you have money, you can buy a cookie.” It was hilarious. Because, of course, in the past, cookie purchases were not available to her, even if she had money.
    “As a parent you are basically responsible for choosing responsible carers, and if your carers turn out to be irresponsible (whatever age) you take the responsibility for that.”
    This is a ridiculous standard — and difficult to imagine applied to the standard of child endangerment (a felony?).
    We once encountered an unattended 2 year old in the park playground we frequent. The child was playing, and occasionally asking other adults to help him up on swings/monkey bars/etc. I asked at some point where his mom was, and he said (in two-year-old words) “at work.” I thought he just didn’t understand my question. It wasn’t until dinner time, when all the other non-white parents left, that someone started to notice that there was no one with that little kid. We called the police, and a distraught mother & child care provider arrived as we were leaving. Turns out that the child care had lost him at the playground. I’m pretty sure that mother shouldn’t be charged with child endangerment (a felony?) for having chosen a daycare that made a mistake. The daycare is another question — but, my suspicion is that even they weren’t charged with anything. The daycare is actually quite well respected, and certainly not generally substandard, though they clearly screwed up in this instance.

  12. I don’t agree its a ridiculous standard, on some sensible understanding of “responsibility”. Obviously things can go wrong with anyone (including, of course, the parent himself, but also including relatives such as grandparents etc). What I mean is that you are responsible for being duly diligent. Whether the parent in the case you describe was duly diligent we don;t know for sure, but your description makes it sound like he/she was. I’m guessing that your parents were in the case you describe from your childhood. In the case under discussion and given the evidence presented, it seems to me that she was not being diligent. The contrast I make between leaving my toddler with my 12 year old (which would not be due diligence) and her 13 year old friend (which would be, I think) is supposed to illustrate that

  13. I agree that children should have more freedom to than they do, and people are, in some ways, overly protective…But busy public places are dangerous to small beings who do not have the judgement to avoid danger, and in an individualist and child-ignoring culture in which you cannot expect unrelated adults to be on the lookout for the wellbeing of stary children.
    Excellently said, Harry. As I read the story, the location makes all the difference. Our 12, almost 13-year-old is regularly put in charge of her younger siblings (ages 9, 5 and 3) by us these days–usually only for a couple of hours on date nights, but sometimes for longer than that. The point is, however, they’re at home–the space that they know well, that isn’t open to all sorts of potentially harmful intrusions, etc. It is the height of foolishness–though not, I think, arrest-worthy; honestly, what good will come to the child if their primary care-giver ends up being hauled away in handcuffs, while social services gets called in to take the kids home?–to put young (not yet even-driving age) people in charge of multiple, much younger children, in an environment over which they can exercise no real control.
    I also agree that the claim that Kevane was facing anti-academic or anti-education hostility sounds simply ludicrous, or indeed paranoid, to me.

  14. It was a weird point Warner was making. But I think the idea that what Kevane did was “endangerment” is pretty absurd, as were the many uses of the word “abandonment” in the comments on the article. The two 12-year-olds both had babysitting training. The fact that they screwed up (and they screwed up by leaving the kids unattended for something like five minutes–you’re telling me no adult has ever let their kids stray that long in a store, or let an 8-year-old watch the littles? I see small kids far off from parents in stores all the time) does not mean no 12-year-old ever is capable of watching small kids in public, and it doesn’t mean Kevane did something CA-RAZY.
    And no, I don’t think the mall is de facto more dangerous for small kids than someone’s home–isn’t it quite arguable that most molestation happens in private homes? That could happen at the hands of a babysitter, babysitter’s friend, or supposedly friendly adult who came by to visit. Almost every scenario in the comments focused not on the actual likely dangers of malls (the kids damaging property, getting temporarily lost, whatever), but on the idea that the children could be molested or snatched–a very very unlikely possibility.

  15. Also, MH?
    “I currently spend a large part of my time keeping a three-year-old from damaging himself or others. I don’t see how a 12 year old could manage with that in a public place. ”
    This depends, so, so much on the kid. I wouldn’t have turned my back on my first kid for five minutes at that age: there were so many places I never took her because it would be too much trouble to rein her in. My second is very self-possessed and careful and inclined to ask permission. I can take her into a shop full of small breakable tchotchkes and give her only an occasional reminder to keep hands to self.

  16. Mine is very clearly systematically studying how far he can go without getting a time-out. If it didn’t involve so many thrown objects, it would be endearing.

  17. For 3 year olds, yes, I think the mall is more dangerous than a home, esp with irresponsible 12 year olds whose irresponsibility extends just to neglect, not abuse. The risk of being damaged by a car (after wandering out), an escalator, or a large person who is not looking at their feet is very high, much higher than the risk of being abused etc. Not that I’m advocating leaving a 3 year old with irresponsible 12 year olds in a home.
    Russell is too coy to mention it, but he has an excellent related post at his blog:
    http://inmedias.blogspot.com/2009/07/kids-and-their-parents-these-days.html

  18. There is context in the original article that supports Warner’s argument:
    “[The city attorney] also said she believed professors are incapable of seeing the real world around them because their “heads are always in a book.” Her first letter to my lawyer ended on a similar theme: “I just think that even individuals with major educations can commit this offense, and they should not be treated differently because they have more money or education.” Despite the fact that Montana professors are among the lowest paid in the nation, and that undoubtedly the prosecutor has a law degree herself, she nevertheless categorized me as someone trying to receive special treatment.”
    The original essay is here: http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/summer2009_kevane.asp
    As a parent, I feel that there’s just no winning here: we’re over-protecting our kids no, wait! we’re recklessly endangering our kids.

  19. Yes, Russell does have an excellent and related post. When Steve gets home and I have some time, I’ll try to tie everything together with a proper post.
    I do think that there is a lot of prejudice against over educated women, but this case wasn’t the best way to highlight it. Maybe the city attorney brought up this issue of her job, because the woman marched into the police department and made an issue of it.
    “As a parent, I feel that there’s just no winning here: we’re over-protecting our kids no, wait! we’re recklessly endangering our kids.” Yeah.
    That said, I wouldn’t have left MY kids at the mall with even the most responsible 12 year olds. But my kids were high maintenance 3 year olds. I might have left a less crazy 3-year old with a more responsible 12 year old at a swim club for an hour.

  20. “I just think that even individuals with major educations can commit this offense, and they should not be treated differently because they have more money or education.”
    Presumably, Kevane’s defense had been that it was definitionally impossible for her to be guilty of child neglect or bad judgment, by reason of advanced higher education.

  21. “The risk of being damaged by a car (after wandering out), an escalator, or a large person who is not looking at their feet is very high”
    “Very high”? Really? Do you see this happen all the time with kids accompanied by parents?

  22. No, presumably because parents generally manage the movements of their toddlers in such environments, rather than allowing them to stray freely. I’m loathe to experiment with my toddler, but your welcome to experiment with yours (or someone else’s if you can get a loan) and report back.

  23. “The risk of being damaged by a car (after wandering out), an escalator, or a large person who is not looking at their feet is very high”
    Wow, I would not expect that to be a problematic statement. I regularly stop my son from running into traffic.

  24. You apparently go to malls with more competent parents than I encounter in PDX. I see a lot of headlong running.
    In any case, the youngest kid in this case was 3, only arguably a toddler, and she was supposed to be in a stroller–the other two “smalls” were 7 and 8.
    laura, I’d be much more scared to leave my kid anywhere with a pool than at a mall.

  25. I always let mine run headlong if there is not traffic nearby. Without it, he won’t nap.
    “she was supposed to be in a stroller”
    A three-year-old can’t really be confined to a stroller against their will.

  26. Harry, Laura, glad you liked the post. It’s been getting some good comments.
    I do think that there is a lot of prejudice against over educated women
    That puts a slightly different spin on it; I was thinking strictly about the prospect of academics or other college-educated people being treated unfairly because of their education, which I find just plain implausible (I’ve lived in hick parts of the country–arguably I still do–and while I occasionally take some ribbing about my job and time in school, the notion that it’s being held against me simply doesn’t match my experiences at all). But you put forward the particular, often subtle and ambiguous jealousies/resentments/expectations which surround women academics, and you’ve got a different situation. (“Of course she foolishly left her kids alone–what do you expect? She’s one of them career women! Let’s make an example out of her!”)
    I’d be much more scared to leave my kid anywhere with a pool than at a mall.
    Agreed, but you can at least dive into a pool to fetch your kid. I wouldn’t worry as much about the inside of busy pedestrian place like a mall–allowing for the concerns over who is watching the child I mentioned above–but it’s outside the mall where things can get scary, real fast. People drive quickly, they are looking for parking spaces, they can easily not notice a small child. No, seriously, the most dangerous place for your child, and the place I would be most reluctant to trust in my older daughters, as competent as they are, has got to be a parking lot.

  27. My reading of Kevane’s essay is that she was willing to acknowledge faulty judgment. Instead she was charged with violating a law that is typically used, in Kevane’s words when “an adult supplies a child younger than eighteen with drugs, prostitutes the child, abandons the child’s home, or engages in sexual conduct with the child. A violation of duty of care is described as cruel treatment, abuse, infliction of unnecessary and cruel punishment, abandonment, neglect, lack of proper medical care, clothing, shelter, and food, and evidence of bodily injury.”
    I realize that there’s a great deal of disagreement regarding the relative danger her children were in, but if you think this constituted child abuse or neglect, then I think maybe you haven’t witnessed the kind of abuse and neglect that regularly occurs in this country, often without ever being noted in any major media outlet.
    Kevane’s point is that her case was handled as it was precisely because she was a university professor. She points out:
    “At any point in the course of events, the Macy’s employees, the mall security guards, the police, or the city prosecutor could have chosen to view my decision to drop my children off at the mall as an innocent moment of faulty judgment. They could have slapped me on the wrist, or warned me, “Don’t do that again,” or settled for any number of lesser charges. After all, there is no law in Bozeman against dropping your children off at the mall.”
    In my town, I regularly see pretty young kids, usually girls, prepubescent, so probably 10-12 years old, heading up a group of kids, including preschool aged children (2-3 y.o.) at the park, no parents or other adults around. We have a significant Hmong population where we live and the kids take on major family resonsibilites at a young age, as has been the case for a majority of human history. Of course, for a majority of human history kids were lucky to make it to adulthood, so there’s that argument! 😉
    Ultimately, I feel that what Kevane’s experience demonstrates is that our society is pretty screwed up about family and child-raising. Criminalizing poor judgement doesn’t help kids and it certainly doesn’t help the parents. Again, Kevane notes:
    “During the months between my arrest and the deferred prosecution agreement that my lawyer eventually worked out, I began to feel that I was being reprimanded for allowing my daughter to develop that sense of responsibility, and, equally important, to come to the realization that sometimes failure is the best teacher of all. Certainly, she had failed when she made the decision to walk into that dressing room, and had the police not intervened, I would have been angry with her, and she would have known that what she had done was wrong. We both would have gained experience. Instead, we got caught up in the legal system and wound up learning a different, sadder lesson: that self-sufficiency is shrinking in today’s culture.”
    There is a potent fear and paranoia in our society that “something could happen” and if something does, it must be somebody’s fault, and it wouldn’t be the pedophile’s fault, it would be the parent’s fault for not protecting their child. I think harry b sums it up accurately: we live in an individualist and child ignoring culture and this scenario exemplifies that situation. It was poor judgement to leave the youngest child with the older children precisely because you can’t expect any other adult to even momentarily keep an eye out for a strange child, that would impinge on their own rights. This is a vastly different attitude than where I grew up (Puerto Rico) and other parts of the world where there is a more general assumption that we are all responsible for the children around us.

  28. As an aside, did anyone else note how Montana law enforcement repeatedly referred to Ms. Kevane as being an *outsider*? Not being a native could easily be a much bigger deal than Ms. Kevane’s education. If Montana is anything like my family’s portion of Iowa, this is all it takes to convict. (Although truth be told, they aren’t too big on uppity college grads who come back home, either. Depends on the college. But that’s not a gender thing, it’s a class thing.)

  29. “Depends on the college.”
    Those fancy pants who were too good for Ames and went to Iowa instead of Iowa State?

  30. “This is a vastly different attitude than where I grew up (Puerto Rico) and other parts of the world where there is a more general assumption that we are all responsible for the children around us.”
    Bystanders did take responsibility in the Kevane case–that’s why the cops got called.

  31. Calling the cops is hardly taking responsibility, unless you think that the cops are going to provide child care. Taking responsibility would be finding out where the kids’ caretakers were and reuniting them. Anyway, it was Macy’s that called mall security and mall security that called the cops, wasn’t it? So not concerned bystanders helping out–rather, employees worried that there were unsupervised children on the loose in their store.

  32. I think the Warner article was off-base (because of its assumption of the educated woman being the cause of the prosecution/persecution). But I’m really surprised at the level of confidence people seem to have in saying that this particular fact pattern was completely unacceptable, especially when relevant evaluations can’t be made (we don’t know the children involved, and yet, we say that the characteristics of the children matter).
    I think what bugs me about this incident is the outcome is being used to judge the decision — if one wants to say categorically that a 12 year old can never be left in charge of a 3 year at a mall, that’s one thing (and an evaluation I disagree with). But, no one was actually harmed here — well except for the intervention — even though the 12 year old was negligent. In fact, the children *were* in a safe place. Contrast that with an actual choking incident in a home, and it seems to me like the mall was a safer place than the home.
    I think there are all kinds of good reasons why a 12 year old shouldn’t be left in charge of a 3 year old in the mall, but because of stealing, or breaking, or disruption, or co-opting nearby adults into babysitters. Not because the child is being “endangered.”

  33. I can’t stop thinking about the 12 year olds. They screwed up and didn’t follow directions, and as a result the mother of one was arrested. That has to damage a kid somehow.

  34. Some data came my way this afternoon. A new family with a 10-year-old, an 8-year-old, a 2-year-old and an infant moved in several doors down from us this afternoon (my husband knows the husband and I had met the wife once before). The three oldest kids came and played at our house today. The big girls were in charge of the toddler. The oldest ferried the 2-year-old to mom for a diaper change and then back, and she also checked in with her parents by cell phone before the kids accepted our offer of popsicles. The younger girl also generally has a cell phone, but doesn’t have one now, due to a series of unfortunate events involving her previous three cell phones. We live in a mostly quiet faculty and staff neighborhood where the kids bike and scooter around with wild abandon.
    I feel like there is a big difference between roaming around your own neighborhood where everybody knows you and roaming around in some public place far, far from home.

  35. Hey MH – “too good for Ames” is exactly right. Although Iowa City can be OK, depending on the degree. (You don’t want to end up a Johnson County snob.) Note this is all about what might bring with it a whiff of elitism.
    On the topic of taking reponsibility, I’m trying to think of what I personally would do if I saw three unsupervised kids at the mall, or the playground. If it involved an unsupervised 3YO I absolutely would go talk to the kids and find out what was up. If at that point I was told they were being watched by their older sisters, I would probably march them over to their sisters and tell them all to stay together. (And then doing an internal eye-roll at the thought of a mom dropping her unsupervised kids at the mall like that.) I don’t picture myself calling the police at that point unless it seemed obvious that someone was neglected.
    To be fair, if I lived in a town or neighborhood small enough that I knew the mom — which is how I picture Montana, mostly — I have to confess this would be massive gossip fodder. I would go straight home and tell my husband, for sure, and would probably tell the story again when I ran into friends. Upon reflection I find myself wondering, was this woman already the talk of the town for dropping the kids off like this? Maybe the “nose in a book” comment had some history behind it. Maybe people had already spoken to this woman a few times about this, in informal ways, and she was blowing it off? If that were the case I can see how you would finally escalate it to the cops.

  36. “Maybe people had already spoken to this woman a few times about this, in informal ways, and she was blowing it off? If that were the case I can see how you would finally escalate it to the cops.”
    Bozeman is surprisingly small for a town we’ve all heard of, something like 38,000.

  37. I read the original article in Brain, Child. My reactions were
    1. She is a department chair, and she manages to be at home with her kids after school most of the time? Wow.
    2. I had a 12-year old babysitter when I was 8-this was in the 70s in a small city (that feels like a small town) in CA.
    There was no mall, but we went to the beach (to play, not to swim, iirc). Recently my mother told me that other parents wouldn’t let their kids come over when that babysitter was in charge. Babysitter was the daughter of a friend, and probably the best my mother could afford. It’s probably relevant that my mother was working nearby-we could drop in on her.

  38. I would leave a 13 year old in charge at home, with an adult within reach (a neighbor, for example.) I would not set the group of children free in a public space, and trust to the good judgement of the older girls. I agree with harry b., a mall is not designed as a safe area for unattended children. One of our daughters was knocked down by a passing teenager at a young age. He didn’t intend to hurt her, but she was too short to be noticed–even though she was holding her grandmother’s hand. When I was a child, I knew a boy who had lost part of his arm to an escalator. It’s also very easy to get separated from small children at the mall, even if you don’t intentionally ditch them in another department. Those are all incidents which can happen to small children in malls, even in the presence of adults.
    Policemen and prosecutors would have a much better idea of “what could happen” to children left unattended in a public area, than would a college professor. That is their stock in trade–they’re the ones who clean up the messes, and, with the help of judges, apportion guilt.
    We are not privy to their opinions of the professor’s behavior, and they might have a different story to tell. Kevane’s body language might have pushed the wrong buttons with the police, and her questioning of the policeman’s opinion did not go down well.

  39. If I was the judge, I would have thrown the book at her because she was a professor. I would expect an unedcuated illegal immigrant, working at Burger King, to drop her children off at the mall because she didn’t have daycare options or because she didn’t know any better. I would expect a woman of that intelligence and stature to be able to afford childcare if she needs a break. I would also expect someone of that intelligence to have enough sense to not abandon her kids in a mall. She needS to rest? HA! You can rest when you are dead, lady. Or in jail for being stupid. Her whining that they were mean to her because she was educated was exactly correct. If you are smart, ACT LIKE IT! Don’t leave your baby in a mall.

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