You know that you aren’t going to find a bigger cheerleader for New Media than this blogger. However, I’ve come across some real turds in the past week that are being spread around via e-mail and blogs. I’m actually feeling nostalgic for the old days, when wackos used to just hand me notes about the CIA on busses in NYC.
Some examples of conspiracy theories:
In a comment section this week, Tex told us that some are spreading around stories that the economic troubles are just a product of fear mongering by MSM to get their buddy, Obama, elected. Once he gets elected, the media will lay off those stories and the economy will magically improve.
Another conspiracy theory making the rounds is even more bizarro. One of my neighbors forwarded me a report that Obama has deep connections with Muslims that financed his trip to Pakistan and law school. The only reason that the media hasn’t reported these facts that can easily be figured out through wikipedia is that that Muslims have infiltrated MSM, as well. Here, you find the Obama-media-Muslim conspiracy in the blogs, too. Snopes has even responded.
Apt. 11d 
I’m not sure how to feel about this post given this one. I suppose “ugly rumors” are somehow subtly different from “conspiracy theories”?
LikeLike
Well, my conclusion from comparing the two posts is that Laura thinks that “ugly rumors” are worse than “conspiracy theories.” She refused to link to those posts, but is passing on the info on these.
LikeLike
Ugly rumors are pretty stinky, too. But they are different from conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories involve an assumption that a large group of people is in league together secretly plotting something nefarious. Conspiracy theories (from the right or the left) are finger nails on a blackboard for me.
LikeLike
There was a conspiracy theory aspect to the Palin rumors, too, since it involved a conspiracy involving doctors, Palin, and others who knew them. I guess that’s not as widespread as the MSM (I guess that’s mainstream media, and Fox doesn’t get to join the club? or are they in on it, too?)
LikeLike
There’s a whole series of Obama posts from today over at Ace of Spades that you may be interested in. And speaking of Obama rumor-mongering, when do we get to see his college transcripts?
LikeLike
Amy, I’m confused. Is Obama a Socialist or a stealth Muslim candidate planning to put the US under Shariah law? Hasn’t the Right Wing Noise Machine decided yet, or are they floating both to see which one sticks better?
LikeLike
“And speaking of Obama rumor-mongering, when do we get to see his college transcripts? ”
When we get to see Palin’s? Have we seen hers? I’ll admit that with her checkered college history I have wondered if there’s official proof that she actually did receive her degree.
LikeLike
But, what really troubles me — the important thing, is that no one is telling me that they believe that McCain is the right man to be president right now. I know you don’t like the other guy, but at least you know that I do. If the unimaginable happens, and McCain wins, I’d be a bit happier if there was someone out there who believed that McCain was the best man for the job (as I do for Obama). Then, at least I could hope that you were right.
These days, it doesn’t even look to me like McCain thinks he’s the best man to do the job.
LikeLike
In my corner of the evil dextrosphere, the question was generally whether Obama is a red diaper baby or an empty suit. The Obama-is-Muslim folk would parachute in periodically, but weren’t regulars. Obama seems to have lived at least the Indonesian part of his childhood as a Muslim, but I’ve always thought that a distraction from his much more interesting, lengthy and recent association with the Rev. Wright. I think Obama’s mostly a Zelig, blending in with his surroundings, but with a preference for a certain kind of background.
LikeLike
“When we get to see Palin’s? Have we seen hers? I’ll admit that with her checkered college history I have wondered if there’s official proof that she actually did receive her degree.”
We should, but Palin’s college background has never been a big selling point, so I don’t think it’s risky for her. (Now, if it were demonstrated that other people caught and shot her fish and game for her…) The only plus is that she covered a lot of Pacific/NW territory going from college to college, so it’s not like she’s been living in Alaska her entire life. Obama’s vulnerable if his transcript is lousy, because he’s supposed to be so gosh darned smart, and it would suggest that he didn’t get into law school on brains alone. I’m thinking lots of Bs, unless he double majored in pot. McCain’s grades we know. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Biden’s, but I believe they came out in the 80s in the context of his presidential campaign blow-up.
LikeLike
Well, bj, I voted for McCain, but not with any great enthusiasm. My political/policy home is closest to the blue dogs/Scoop Jackson Dems; I don’t like the Pelosi wing of the Democratic Party, and if Obama is President it will control the whole enchilada. Obama clearly has a better Presidential temperament, is smarter, and has some really exciting possibilities for muting the racial divide. McCain seems to me to take national defense more seriously. Obama seems almost Bush-like in his faith in the efficacy of calm discourse with leaders (remember looking into Putin’s eyes??!). Neither one of them has run anything big successfully. I wish each had taken an experienced governor as Veep – Crist, Bredesen, Napolitano, Sebelius would have been good choices. Palin is a plus, but not a big one.
The thing I have liked most about Bush is his judicial appointments, I fear Harold Koh on the Supreme Court, like Alito and Roberts. I don’t want card check, I prefer elections. My view is that we will get outcomes closer to what I want if we continue to have divided government. So that’s why I voted McCain. It’s not exactly a ringing endorsement, but it’s an endorsement…
LikeLike
If you characterize the opinion that the MSM is “outright campaigning for Obama” as conspiracy theory, then believers Glenn Reynolds and others might characterize the contrasting opinion that the MSM doing balanced reporting as another conspiracy theory. I guess all this depends partly on a person’s worldview and what he accepts as facts.
Okay, now you can call me stupid again.
LikeLike
Hmm, somehow I doubt that the majority of McCain supporters believe he’s the best man for the job. Speaking for myself, I can only say that I believe Obama is one of the worst.
LikeLike
I didn’t call you stupid. I was calling the blogger that you quoted stupid.
The mass media does not work together as one group. They don’t have meetings and cooperate to get their people elected. Each individual reporter cares most about securing their own job and getting promotions. Katie Couric cares less about Palin and Obama and more that she got a huge increase in viewership in the past month. If she had good dirt on Obama, she would certainly air it. The media certainly did not hold back on Clinton.
The other problem with conspiracy theories is that it assumes that a large group of people can work together, put ideology over individual advancement, and that they can keep a secret. There are no secrets. Maybe one guy can keep something quiet, but there is no way that thousands of people who work in the media could keep a plot quiet.
So, anybody who writes about MSM as if it had one brain is just crazy.
LikeLike
“The media certainly did not hold back on Clinton.”
Laura, you do remember how Drudge made it big, don’t you? It was precisely from the media holding back on Clinton, and Drudge breaking the embargo. The media did a pretty good job of holding back on Edwards, too.
Kaus has often discussed the complex relationship between Democratic candidates and the press. He argues that the press often shields Democrats from reality in ways that are harmful to their candidacies, and that because Democratic candidates are used to getting the royal treatment from the press, they are unprepared when Republicans start punching.
LikeLike
Holding off on Edwards was the media attempting not to go off in tabloid territory. It was rumor until Edwards made a statement. They held off on the Bristol is Trig’s mother too. I haven’t seen stories on McCain in the MSM that I’ve seen reported on the internet either(one in particular about calling his wife names). The media doesn’t report every story that circulates around the rumor mill.
I think MSNBC has a liberal bias, and Fox obviously a conservative. Everyone else is as close to middle of the road, going for highest ratings.
LikeLike
Ugly rumors are pretty stinky, too. But they are different from conspiracy theories.
The suggestion that the Palins, the hospital staff, and various state officials conspired to falsify an infant’s lineage is not a conspiracy theory?
bj, I somehow doubt that if I used my blog to provide a forum to discuss “those rumors about Obama’s schooling and shady financial ties” without actually linking to posts that anyone here would find that completely innocuous.
LikeLike
Siobhan, my understanding was that Laura didn’t link to the Bristol/Trig rumors so as not to further perpetuate ugly gossip about a 17 year-old. You are faulting her for this? I thought as a conservative you would be happy to not have someone perpetuating that kind of crap and yet adding another link to give it steam.
LikeLike
“I think MSNBC has a liberal bias, and Fox obviously a conservative. Everyone else is as close to middle of the road, going for highest ratings.”
You have to factor in incompetence, too. In a lot of cases, the roof has to be falling in before the media begins paying attention. To cite a fairly neutral example, I’ve been a housing bubble blog watcher for some time, and the media coverage on housing was a disaster for years. A couple years back, reporters were using real estate agents as their first and last sources for housing stories. When things visibly turned sour, reporters still credulously printed unopposed quotes about how “it’s different here,” “it’s a good time to buy,” “houses always go up,” and “Boomers are coming here to retire”. Recent coverage has tilted the other way, but many reporters are still incurious and won’t do even the most minimal public records searches or ask the most basic questions (like “You’ve been in your house 35 years. Why is it that you’ve got a mortgage greater than the value of your house?”).
The media could have saved thousands of people from buying in 2006 and 2007 who are now in dire straits (as well as the taxpayers who will pay for it), but for some reason they didn’t. Who is going to investigate them?
LikeLike
As Amy says, never posit conspiracy when mere stupidity or miscalculation will do. People do conspire from time to time, but notice that the actual conspiracies we know about involved small numbers of people (or people organized in small units, like cells) and because we know about them, they were by definition unsuccessful in the long-term, though they may have achieved a single or particular goal before becoming known.
The hardcore conspiracy theorist believes that there are many unknown successful conspiracies that by definition involve many thousands of individuals acting deliberately in concert towards a pre-agreed objective while keeping their coordinated activity a secret. Not only do I see no evidence that this ever *can* happen in history, if it does happen, there isn’t any point to complaining about it, because then by definition the conspirators are so vastly more powerful, intelligent, and capable than the conspiracy theorists that they might as well belong to another species. (Homo Illuminatus, perhaps). I always find especially hilarious the conspiracy theorist who believes in this kind of conspiracy and yet somehow believes that it is possible for it to be exposed. Exposed to whom? If such a conspiracy exists, then there are so many participants controlling so many social and cultural institutions that it cannot be exposed by definition. Honestly, it can’t even be known, in fact: by definition whatever the conspiracy theorist knows, the conspiracy wants him to know. This is all fun when it’s fiction, stupid when it’s a serious belief about the real world.
As for all the more humdrum and petty kind of Karl-Rovian bullshit about background, people are free to make that their decision rule for electing people if they like. If there were a way for them to get what they deserve in a time when there’s actually important issues while I could live somewhere with a leadership elected by meaningful evaluation, I would happily observe the consequences from a distance. Unfortunately this isn’t an available option.
LikeLike
“My view is that we will get outcomes closer to what I want if we continue to have divided government. So that’s why I voted McCain. It’s not exactly a ringing endorsement, but it’s an endorsement…”
Yeah, really, that doesn’t give me any comfort at all. I can see that some people can’t vote for Obama ’cause they disagree with his ideology. You’re right — I’m hoping that he represents the democratic wing of the democratic party/i.e. the Pelosi wing, though I think he’s going to be more middle of the road than that.
But, right now, McCain seems like a vote for incompetence. And I do not regard Palin as a plus, on the competance standard — I would have been less fearful if he’d chosen Romney.
LikeLike
Some bubble watchers blame the bad housing reporting on advertising concerns. Another factor is that many reporters are homeowners, and they certainly work with and for homeowners. As I’ve seen posters on thehousingbubbleblog.com mention many times, back in the boom times, nobody wanted to listen to somebody telling them that their house was going to lose 50%-66% of its value. The bad housing reporting was probably caused by a very difficult to analyze web of stupidity, laziness, conformity, and self-interest.
LikeLike
Lisa V, I don’t see creating a post on one’s blog to discuss the rumors as very pious just because there’s no direct link. It’s all pretty filthy, and hardly progressive behavior.
LikeLike
So, who, exactly, is part of the main stream media conspiracy?
There’s an interesting and relevant review article from the May issue of Science magazine, by Emily Pronin (now at Princeton), titled “How we see ourselves and how we see others.” It’s basic premise is that evaluating our own opinions and actions, we rely heavily on our own monitoring of internal states (that is, the process that got us to our decisions). But, when we judge others actions, we do not have access to that introspection, and thus assume that it’s absent. Therefore, we have a psychological tendency to believe that those with whom we disagree are biased.
From the article:
“Because people often do not recognize when
personal biases and idiosyncratic interpretations have shaped their judgments and preferences, they often take for granted that others will share those judgments and preferences (23). When others do not, people’s faith in their own objectivity often prompts them to view those others as biased. Indeed, people show a broad and pervasive tendency to see (and even exaggerate) the impact of bias on others’ judgments while denying its influence on their own (23). For example, people think that others’ policy opinions are biased by self-interest (30), that others’ social judgments are biased by an inclination to rely on dispositional (rather than situational) explanations for behavior (31), and that others’ perceptions of interpersonal conflicts are biased by their personal allegiances (32). At the same time, people are blind to each of these biases in their own judgments (30–32).”
LikeLike
AmyP, I think it’s hard to have a story about something which is ongoing and has no big sudden event. A bus goes off the road, 23 people killed, young woman paralyzed for life – that’s what the newspapers are best at. Incremental changes over a 3-year period in rules for qualifying people for mortgages… not much of a hook there. You and I were reading housing bloggers, so we think there was something obvious, but there was no explosion, nothing sudden. Prices had been going up 3% a year, then 4, then 5, then 8, then 11, then 14.
There’s that great old story (true? who cares, it ought to be true) about the frog in gradually warming water, never a trigger to get out. That’s what the housing story was like.
LikeLike
“But, right now, McCain seems like a vote for incompetence. ”
(Yeah, I’m quoting myself). And, I’d understand a bit better (especially with the divided government hypothesis) if folks thought that a vote for McCain was a vote for inaction, and they prefer government not act (and, I guess that inaction will fix the currently bad status quo better than action).
But, I think that McCain’s recent plans (the mortgage plan is just nutty) suggest that he’s going off half-baked into action, so even that reasoning doesn’t work.
LikeLike
http://danzigercartoons.com/?p=1926
LikeLike
dave s,
So the media can only tell us what they see in their rear view mirror–they can’t tell us what is happening now, or what is going to happen.
LikeLike
Real estate sections of your average newspaper are bought and sold by builders and/or classified advertising. Reporters that are critical of the whole process wouldn’t last long, if they went there in the first place, and critical stories would lead to advertisers pulling their ads. No money for the section, no section, no stories.
Ditto for your automotive sections of newspapers. When’s the last time anyone out there saw a review in a car section (or a car magazine, for that matter) that said anything like “This vehicle is a total stinker”? Much less a story along the lines of, “everyone should really be bicycling or using trains as much as possible.” Doesn’t happen, isn’t going to happen.
It’s like the sports section, in a way. Someone who writes that watching grown men hurtle into one another is a stupid way to spend an autumn Sunday is not going to get published on the sports pages. There’s no need to look for a conspiracy, or a bias or whatever; it’s built into the structure of the thing.
LikeLike
“There’s no need to look for a conspiracy, or a bias or whatever; it’s built into the structure of the thing.”
I guess then I don’t need to feel bad about last subscribing to a newspaper in the early 90s when my journalism classes had weekly news quizzes and I had to speed read through a week’s worth of LA Times before going to class.
LikeLike
Obama seems to have lived at least the Indonesian part of his childhood as a Muslim
Ah, speaking of lowering the level of content on the internet, here’s a slurry whopper from Amy P.
Back this up now or take it back, Amy P. And I don’t mean guilt-by-geographical association. There is NO evidence that Obama ever “lived as a Muslim.”
So either: (1) show the evidence from your statement,(2) take this misstatement back, or (3) I will implore Laura to improve the quality around here and keep you away.
LikeLike
Yikes, people! What ever happened to our dinner party rules here?
LikeLike
I’m no good with tinyurl yet, but there was an LA Times story from 2007 entitled “Islam an Unknown Factor in Obama Bid.” Paul Watson, the LA Times reporter, says that Obama was registered at his Muslim and Catholic schools in Indonesia as a Muslim, that he had a couple hours a week of religious education, and that his childhood friends in Indonesia recall going to pray at the mosque with him. I don’t think this is a big deal, certainly not a violation of “dinner party rules.” I thought Obama’s cosmopolitanism and inside knowledge of the Muslim world was supposed to be a selling point.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/bal-te.obama16mar16,1,7181735,full.story?cset=true&ctrack=3&coll=la-headlines-nation
LikeLike
Let’s not get distracted.
What I want, more than anything after our current woes, is competance. I believe that of Obama. I’m becoming increasingly concerned that McCain is not just a worse choice, but a dangerous one, in the current climate. And all I’m hearing from his supporters are distractions that have nothing to do with how this country will be run.
Let’s talk about McCain’s mortgage plan — Dave are you counting on the Dems to stop it, if McCain were to win? I wouldn’t, if I were you. I have a great deal more confidence in the Dem’s unwillingness to run this country into the ground than you do, but even my confidence certainly doesn’t stretch to the Dem’s blocking a plan to help poor suffering homeowners, no matter how economically misguided.
(It’s easy to get dragged in the mud, but honestly, manchurian candidate conspiracy theories, worrying about college grades, and what a child did when he was nine years old? Just silly).
LikeLike
Well, Amy, my fear is that you’re going to totally kill conversation here the way you’ve been doing at halfchangedworld. And killing meaningful conversations is something a troll does.
I don’t think it’s purposeful on your part but I believe dinner party rules are designed to keep us all well away from troll-like behavior.
LikeLike
(I’m feeling totally terrible about using the T word. I am concerned that conversation here is just going to stop, but in retrospect the T word is overkill. Laura, if you have the power and will to edit me out I’d appreciate it.)
LikeLike
jen,
I think you may be confusing me with the other amy at halfchangedworld.com, who has a background rather different than my own, even if we share some views. That amy has five posts up at halfchangedworld in the comment bar, while I have one. I always post with my final initial, knowing that there are lots of fellow Amys on the net. I agree that I’m a lot guiltier on this site, but being called a liar or asked to retract stuff that is well-sourced is provoking. I don’t even want to write this post, but I felt I ought to clear up the confusion over the profusion of amys over at halfchangedworld.com. She isn’t responsible for my sins, and I’m not responsible for hers.
LikeLike
jen,
No problem–I’ve always respected your writing. A new thread is a new day. This one was supposed to be on internet conspiracy theories, so of course it wasn’t going to turn into a tea party.
LikeLike
Religious education is not “living as a Muslim.” And you did not present it “as a positive.”
Read his biography. He is Christian through and through, and why you are raising this issue is beyond me.
I thought you had been banend here once–for good reason. Quit bringing up all this nonsense!!
LikeLike
Alright, guys. I’ve been on kid duty all day and I think I have strep throat, so I’m not in the best of moods.
Let me say this very clearly. Some of my favorite people in the world are Muslim. If I read any comment on this blog that equates being Muslim with being a terrorist or in any way denigrates people who practice that religion or makes vague innuendos about people who associate with Muslims, that comment will be stricken from the record and punishments will be meted out. This rule isn’t up for negotiation or discussion.
LikeLike
Who exactly in this thread has been equating Muslims with terrorists or denigrating Muslims? If anything, it is a sign of prejudice against Muslims to argue as if it would be a mark against Obama if he practiced Islam as a child. It is every bit as strange to deny that evidence (collected by the LA Times from his schools and old friends in Indonesia) as it is be to insist (against all evidence as some people do) that he is a secret Muslim to this day.
In the end, Obama’s religious identification as a preteen doesn’t matter at all to his fitness as a presidential candidate, but as academics, you should understand the importance of preserving all aspects of the historical record, rather than sweeping some facts away.
LikeLike
I disagree. Some items in the historical record should be just understood as irrelevant. And, in the context of a time when people are using irrelevant information for nefarious ends, those items should be politely ignored.
If you don’t like Obama, because of his position on abortion, the war in Iraq, health care, whatever, that’s fine. Focus on that. You also may not like him, because of his business dealings or his relationship with Rev. Wright. That, too, is fair game. But speculation about his religious affiliations, whether in his youth or even adulthood, make me squirm.
I’m sorry, but I’m closing comments on this thread, because I’m not feeling well enough to skillfully moderate.
I must add that part of dinner party manners is knowing your audience. I think that the commenters on this blog are unique in the blogosphere for entertaining arguments from other viewpoints. However, it is possible to push the audience too far. Maintaining this balance is tricky, but I think a worthy goal.
LikeLike