Until I read this post and link from Dean Esmay (via Chris Lawrence), I hadn’t been following the Terry Shiavo case. From what I heard, she was brain dead; there was no life to support. But it seems that this case isn’t so simple.
UPDATE: Go here for more links and discussion on the topic of Terry Schiavo. I’m closing comments here; discussion will continue at the new post.
Apt. 11d 
It’s confusing. People often state that she is brain dead or that she died 15 years ago (one of the links above said just that). But she is NOT brain dead. She is in a persisting vegetative state, which is different. If she were brain dead, then she’d be dead–we don’t keep feeding people who are brain dead.
Of course, people differ on their belief about patients in persisting vegetative states. I believe that this is an area of ongoing research. The New York Times had a magazine article about it with the last year, I believe. Some people in such states do have brain scans that show some reaction to spoken words, for example (and those scans are similar to the ones the rest of us have when we hear those words). If I remember right, the article suggested that such people lacked the ability to be consciously aware, but might still have subconscious thoughts.
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You can read the New York Times article at http://www.msu.edu/course/hm546/nyt_pvs.htm
I’m very conflicted about this issue.
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Further complicating things: Ms. Schiavo’s family claims she really isn’t in a PVS.
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Unfortunately, she seems to me to be the new Elian Gonzalez, in that her case has been hijacked by competing outside groups trying to make a point.
All that I can say for certain here is that for me it highlights the importance of having a living will in place to deal with these situations.
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Unfortunately, she seems to me to be the new Elian Gonzalez, in that her case has been hijacked by competing outside groups trying to make a point.
All that I can say for certain here is that for me it highlights the importance of having a living will in place to deal with these situations.
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I’m not sure that a living will would help here, Jay, although you’re absolutely right about the Elianization of the situation.
Reading through the links that Laura pointed us to, I wasn’t convinced — they were so emotional and loaded that I was left wondering whether the whole claim (about TS not being in a PVS at all) wasn’t part of the battle.
In a situation like that, I trust the courts much more than either husband or parents, imperfect though they are.
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You can see on the web videos of Terry interacting with her family, babbling, moving around, responding to what they do. She’s not in a ‘persistent vegetative state’ at all (does a vegetable react when you hug it?), which is really the huge problem. Her parents are willing to care for her, but the husband won’t allow it.
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(arrived here via Vindauga)
The article in the Times last year was very disturbing to me, because of what it suggested about PVS for all of us, not just Terry Schiavo. The doctors in that article seemed pretty clear in their own minds that what Ms. Shiavo did was not deliberate or conscious, that EKGs done while people in PVS have what appear to be interactive moments show no brain activity. Doctors aren’t pursuaded by what they see on Ms. Schiavo’s family’s videos of her.
But meanwhile, other EKGs of other people in PVS do show brain activity. A few people in “hopeless” PVS have recovered to some extent. But until you come OUT of a PVS, there’s no way to know whether you will or not. The article seemed to suggest that some people could more or less be trapped inside their bodys, unable to communicate in ANY way but actually processing quite a lot of their environment. It was seriously frightening to consider, not just for Ms. Shiavo but for anyone.
For what it’s worth, though, NONE of the doctors interviewed for the Times piece (if I remember correctly) said it was realistic or scientifically feasible to expect a patient in a PVS for 15 years to emerge. Also, Ms. Shiavo suffered particular diagnosable brain damage that destroyed all the areas of the brain we would consider necessary to human consciousness. Her parents are hoping for a miracle, and imputing consciousness to actions that doctors wouldn’t impute consciousness to, and while I as a parent completely understand that, well, when I consider what it might be like for Ms. Schiavo…
The whole situation frightens me, and confuses me. I’m glad it hasn’t been my reality, that’s for sure.
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Terris Schiavo is not brain dead. She’s not dead at all. A feeding tube is not that big of a deal – for those of us who have a family member who lives with one. The real issue here is: what is Terri’s preference and, even in light of that, should her husband have the right to take the feeding tube away. The courts have said that, yes, he does have that right. And he says that Terri would never have wanted to live in this manner. But there is a nagging doubt. Not about his motives (lots of bad things have been said about him). But about the lack of a clear statement from her that she would, indeed, want to die by starvation (that is, after all, what it would really be) under these circumstances. Maybe she really would want that. But maybe she has found something worthwhile in her current state: we can’t know.
My bottom line on this is: in light of the uncertainty about her true preferences, and in light of the rather gruesome manner of death that would be entailed, and in light of the fact that there are other family members who are willing to do the daily work of caring for her, then the husband should yield. Even if he believes that she would not want to live like this, I think he should allow others to care for her and make the best out of her situation. His solace might be: she may sense more of her surroundings than science can establish; there may be some beauty and love she can perceive; and maybe the tube feeding is not, for her now, as terrible a thing as she thought it might have be en when she was fully abled.
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As I said, I was quite shocked to learn about Terry Shiavo’s condition and the questions surrounding her treatment by her husband.
I hope the courts do the right thing, but I am not completely comfortable that they’ll do so. How many innocent people were on death row in Illinois? OJ, anyone?
Some think that her husband is pushing for the removal of her feeding tube, because old cat scans showed mysterious bone breaks. She may have been a victim of abuse. He no longer visits her and denies her routine therapy and dental treatment. He does not seem to be the best guardian of her interests.
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LET TERRY PASS AWAY, THE PARENTS ARE SELFISH PEOPLE, AND WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS, THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD THAT NEEDS REPRESENTATION AND NOT GETTING IT, CAUSE OF THE POLITICS OF TERRY.
I FOR ONE DO NOT WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS AND MAKE THE HOME RICHER. THIS IS NOT DOING ANYONE ANY GOOD AT ALL, IF THE PARENTS REALLY LOVED THEIR DAUGHTER THEY WOULD LET HER GO, SHE HAS ALREADY DIED, ALL THAT IS LEFT IS HER SHELL. WHY DO THE PARENTS OF TERRY WANT TO PUT THE AMERICANS THROUGH ALL THE EXPENCE TO KEEP THE SHELL OF THEIR DAUGHTER.
THE PARENTS ARE VERY VERY SELFISH, TO GET THE AMERICANS IN A TURMOIL OVER A SHELL, THIS IS NOT FAIR TO THE AMERICANS WHO CAN USE THE MONEY THAT IS BEING SPENT ON THIS CASE, FOR THEIR ILLNESS WHO ARE NOT A SHELL.
DO THEY THINK THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES IN THIS WORLD WHO HAS A LOVED ONE WHO IS A SHELL LIKE STATE?
THEY SHOOT HORSES DON’T THEY…..
LET TERRY PASS AWAY AND LET EVERYONE BE AT PEACE……
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SHELL????? All that is left is a shell? Are yo smoking your socks? Have you not seen the videos?
She is NOT in a PVS (persistant vegetative state). She responds to her parents and other visitors. She has been denied therapy for over twelve years. She swallows her saliva, so perhaps giving her swallow therapy would let her be fed normally once again.
Do the research. Check the videos online.
Start here: http://www.terrisfight.org/
And scroll down a bit and check the videos.
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What I can’t understand is why her husband, who has a new family, cannot just divorce Terri and let her family take care of her. He is a selfish man. He will not be happy until she is dead.
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I am glad to see our elected officials intercede. We are talking about a human life. She is “not” on life support, she does recognized her family. Why should her husband be the one to decide her fate when he already has another woman and two children with her. I question his motives.
Let her parents take care of her and allow the husband a clean break – no more visits, medical bills, etc.
What’s next? Should we give lethal injections to elderly people in rest homes… how about people with alzheimers, kill them when they don’t recognize anyone?…what about people who have severe mental problems? Where does it stop? This just shows how our moral values have gone right down the toilet.
God help us!
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