As we pulled into the street where Ian takes his Sunday afternoon therapeutic art class, we passed Tenafly Arts studio.
"Look, Ian! It says Tenafly Farts. Did you fart? Did you smell up the car? Do you have to go to the bathroom?"
One of the reasons that my kids like me so much is that my sense of humor stalled out at about sixth grade.
Ian's art class is marvelous. They draw and dance to music for an hour and a half, which he loves, and they also infuse social skills training into their lessons.
Ian could use some help with his social skills. As we walked down the street to the bagel shop last week, he approached a woman of a certain age and asked, "Are you OLD?" with a light conversational tone that one would use to ask about the weather or the baseball scores. I knew what was going to come out of his mouth, because he's done this before. So I clamped my hand in front of his mouth and smiled and shrugged at the horrified woman.
In addition to his art class, he's attending another social skills class on Monday and one at school. Of all the therapies, this type is most sketchy to me. I'm not sure how much the kids are really learning there. But it's another opportunity for Ian to be around other kids and it helps expand his speech repertoire.
After attending countless awkward graduate school parties, I do think that many people could benefit from social skills classes. Lessons would include: No one really cares about your dissertation. If you don't know what to say, ask questions. People can see you picking your nose in a car.
If you could run a social skills class, what lesson would you teach?
Apt. 11d 
Don’t ask me a question just so I will ask you the same question.
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Speaking of stalled humor, depending on who else is in the car, I still lick people when I cross the Licking River.
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Worse, perhaps, my little one just asked the mother of one of my wife’s students “Are you an old man?”
Social skills advice: I’m hardly one to offer, but if I were I’d say “keep your eyes open and your mouth shut most of the time”.
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I’d second that, “Ask questions.” I just had an encounter this weekend where someone I hadn’t seen in over 2 years spent the whole time talking about random things semi-related, but not quite related to hir life, and didn’t even ask what I was up to.
Also, recognize personal space. People who get too close to me drive me crazy.
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Yesterday, my son tried to order the archbishop not to use incense. His Excellency didn’t notice what was being said, but he couldn’t have missed the imperative tone.
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Don’t assume that your colleague’s SAHM wife only wants to talk about her kids.
Infant-raising is not a speed event.
Before gushing about the amazing vacation your family went on or the fantastic summer camp that you send your kids too, take a moment or two to reflect on the question, “Could my interlocutor afford it?”
Your political views are not interesting or original enough to be shared with everybody you meet.
Not everybody lives to organize the 3rd grade Valentine’s party.
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Please, please, chew with your mouth closed.
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“Before gushing about the amazing vacation your family went on or the fantastic summer camp that you send your kids too, take a moment or two to reflect on the question, “Could my interlocutor afford it?”
Gah, really? I think of certain things as priorities. We are very frugal in some ways but splurge on vacation experiences. Many people might look at my car and clothes and think, hey, she can’t afford it. But we do because we save our money for it. And I don’t assume others can/cannot afford vacations. I know a lot of people are like us and have different priorities.
And I want to hear if other people have been to the same places.
But then again, I fully admit I have few social skills and will probably learn a lot from this thread. 🙂
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I mostly agree with Amy P., but if you eliminate politics and anything that costs money from the discussion, it can be difficult, especially with a adult of the opposite sex, to find a conversational topic other than children. (This presumes that we are also eliminating religion, health-related topics, anyone’s personal appearance, and anything that makes money, since those are traditionally forbidden, and the weather, since it’s too boring, plus maybe political these days.)
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if you eliminate politics and anything that costs money from the discussion, it can be difficult, especially with a adult of the opposite sex, to find a conversational topic other than children.
That’s why I make it a point to learn something new about Canada every day. Then I can share that with the world.
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Most important social skill: have friends who think your random interests are actually interesting.
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That’s why I picked Canada. Everybody wants to know more about Canada.
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“That’s why I make it a point to learn something new about Canada every day. Then I can share that with the world.”
We actually have an entire radio show dedicated to this proposition. But, your method might work, if you’re talking to someone who doesn’t listen to the show.
I admit to having poor social skills, but the only rule I’m willing to learn and follow is the one about asking other people questions and sincerely listening to what they have to say. The rest of it — about inappropriate conversational topics — well that would make my life too boring. I’d rather follow Chevre’s advice, and find people who want to talk about the same inappropriate things I want to discuss.
Presumably following rule #1 will allow me to find those people, rather than imposing my conversation on innocent bystanders.
My question for Amy, is, what should one talk about with you (if not, children, politics or religion)?
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But, your method might work, if you’re talking to someone who doesn’t listen to the show.
My method doesn’t work if the other person knows anything about Canada because I usually just make things up.
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See, and I want to know why Ian asked. Why did he want to know if the woman was old?
My son asks questions like this because he has some reason he wants to know. Often, the reason is quite complicated, involves multiple other conversation, and touches on deep philosophical topics about the meaning of life and death and order in the universe.
We’ve pretty much trained him not to ask strangers these questions, but early on, we recognized that he asked strangers because he’d gotten inadequate replies from others (you know, the wishy washy answers we give to questions like whether someone is old, or rich, or when they will die). His hope, at least when he was younger, is that if he asked enough people, someone would give him the answer.
(BTW, when my son was asking people if they were old, it was ’cause someone had told him that yo got old before you died, and he was trying to figure out how old one had to be before one died — just in case that’s what’s on Ian’s mind).
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Everybody wants to know more about Canada.
Especially their politics! A fascinating topic that everyone ought to be more informed about. (And by the way, hurrah for the NDP!)
As for social skills generally, I recognize that I’m rather pathetic in many regards, such as dress, deportment, humor, etc. I have found, however, that if one follows Laura’s advice–“Ask questions”–and then Harry’s–“Keep your mouth shut most of the time”–that just about everyone will consider you a fine conversationalist and an insightful fellow. You will also probably learn something too, but that’s a side benefit.
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“Gah, really? I think of certain things as priorities. We are very frugal in some ways but splurge on vacation experiences. Many people might look at my car and clothes and think, hey, she can’t afford it. But we do because we save our money for it. And I don’t assume others can/cannot afford vacations. I know a lot of people are like us and have different priorities.”
I’ve actually been in violation of this a couple times recently, which is why I mention it. In my personal instance, my interlocutor is probably living on the equivalent of no more than a third of our household income, while having kids the same age at the same private school. It’s really easy to slip up. People talk about the perils of keeping up with the Joneses, but that I think that a less appreciated problem is that of being the Joneses to less prosperous peers. It’s easy to understand this problem when you’re on the receiving end. For instance, in my extended family, my richest close relatives have been choosing the venue for the big yearly family trip. Their choice happens to be this ski town in British Columbia where they own a share in a condo. There are a lot of no-shows, particularly among the younger generation. My husband and kids and I went once a couple winters ago and it was totally horrifying to compute how much each hour of the kids’ skiing cost, especially since various members of our family got sick on the trip and couldn’t ski and had to be kept away from frail elderly relatives.
“weather, since it’s too boring…”
It helps if you don’t live in an area with boring weather. I was recently at a birthday party where a table of moms who didn’t know each other were united by an animated discussion of what we all did during the recent tornadoes.
“My question for Amy, is, what should one talk about with you (if not, children, politics or religion)?”
Any of those subjects is fine, as long as there’s some sensitivity to audience and they are not part of a frequently repeated monologue. If you’ve just met the person and there are no obvious sign posts, follow harry b’s advice and scope them out first.
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For example, if your opening conversational gambit is something like “Aren’t Democrats/Republicans terrible!” or “Isn’t [the current president] a disaster!” it’s time to reread the collected works of Judith Martin.
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Keep your feet off shared or public furniture and benches, and keep your kids’ feet off them, too, especially in restaurants and the like.
When you’re at a crowded cafe or coffee shop, and you’re done with your food and drink, but other people don’t have a place to sit, leave, even if you’re still reading the paper or your book or want to use the place as your office. (If it’s not crowded, say, but if people need a seat, and you’re not eating or drinking any more, go.)
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Likewise, if you’re on public transportation and people are standing, your purse or briefcase does not need its own seat.
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I tried to give my seat to an old lady on the bus. She couldn’t hear me over the iPod she had going.
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I like Harry B’s and Patricia’s advice – they’re the kind of advice autistic youngest still needs to master at age fourteen.
Social skill #1 I am trying to inculcate into autistic youngest: “Don’t ask personal questions of other people in public. Personal means questions about age, race, sexual orientation, weight, gender, life expectancy, intelligence or political preference. Save those questions, if you must ask them, for your family at home!”
I keep adding to the list of what constitutes personal. Last summer, autistic youngest repeatedly questioned an obese family member about weight. Said family member is understanding of autism and very good-tempered, but the third or fourth time this happened, tempers were starting to fray.
Learning what is an appropriate question to ask is a very tricky skill to master.
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Nick Carraway’s dad’s advice is spot on.
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“Learning what is an appropriate question to ask is a very tricky skill to master.”
Yes, indeed. For the inexperienced, it’s almost better to come up with a short list of socially acceptable questions, rather than to give them a long list of unacceptable topics.
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Here’s my favorite social skills lesson:
If you meet a woman at a party and you only know her as your colleague’s wife, don’t assume she’s an idiot.
My husband worked for NATO and this female colleague of his came up to him at a party and spoke to him for awhile, while ignoring me. Then, she turned to me and apologize for using all these big words and acronyms. I guess she assumed the only words I knew were “diapers” and “breastfeeding.” PRetty funny, actually, because I have a PhD in international relations, and actually taught the military course a couple of time that she was so proud to have recently completed.
The woman you insult could be your competition, your future boss, your mentor or the person whose recommendation you need to get your next job. And guess who won’t be getting one from me?
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I did go through a phase where I referred to my parents’ friends, in their hearing, as medieval, not having grasped that it wasn’t a synonym for middle ages in all its senses. Not that calling them middle aged to their faces would have been so polite either…
I spend some time trying to educate a couple of the men in my life about questions one should not ask and things one should not say to people who aren’t close family or friends, but it’s a near-impossible task. (When you hear someone has a new boyfriend, don’t immediately start talking about when they’ll break up; when people indicate you’ve met before, don’t insist vehemently that you have absolutely no recollection of them whatsoever; if you’re a guy and you feel like another guy was very friendly toward you, you don’t need to lead off the next conversation with a clarification of your own sexuality…) But the thing is, they have really good hearts, and don’t mean to make people uncomfortable, so despite some social miscues or missteps, they get along okay.
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Suze,
That all sounds very Michael Scott–sweet, but just a bit off.
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I was just reading Dear Prudence over at Slate. Emily Yoffe says, “If there’s a message that I would like to convey through this column, it is: People don’t want strangers inquiring about the origin of their children, or their physical disabilities and anomalies.”
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Oh, Suze reminded me:
If you remember meeting someone, but it was brief and a very long time ago, and you are pretty sure that they don’t remember, don’t say anything about it. If they do seem to remember, fine, but don’t let on that you remember everything they said, everything your said, what room you were in, and how you were both positioned in the room. It creeps people out. Especially it was more than a decade ago (or two, as in my case sometimes).
Unless you dated them in which case they may be happy that they made such an impression. Especially if they remember it all too. Even if you dated for only a few weeks 30 years ago.
That’s my experience anyway.
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“It creeps people out.”
How about rounding all that out with a moist handshake and lots of direct eye contact while saying “I’m your biggest fan.”
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1) If no one seems to be able to come up with a conversation topic, discuss pets. Almost everyone has a pet story and they are almost never controversial.
2) When meeting someone who may be a SAHM (or SAHD), as mentioned above, ask something like, “So are you connected with the university too?” rather than “What do you do?” or “Do you work?” This makes it possible for them to either talk about their job or their kids or however else they spend their time.
3) At parties, always offer to help with something. This often provides you with something to talk about.
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But I think we’re drifting from what social skills classes are supposed to be about. Are they to teach people from doing things that annoy us (i.e. not giving up a seat in the coffee shop when they’re not drinking anymore?) or from learning skills that prevent them from getting what they want?
I think the point of most social skills classes is to help kids/people understand how their behavior affects others so that they don’t produce undesirable effects. For example, if the girl/boy you have a secret crush on sees you picking your nose, will they lose all interest in you? Does asking your neighbor who they voted for in the last election mean that your neighbor will cross the street to avoid you and choose not to report the mysterious strangers entering your house at midnight?
If your goal really is to never speak to your neighbor again, or if you don’t care if you never speak to your neighbor, then?
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“If your goal really is to never speak to your neighbor again, or if you don’t care if you never speak to your neighbor, then?”
We’ve had the “Why do I need more friends?” talk at home a couple times.
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It was only when I learned that other people don’t remember almost every encounter they’ve ever had that I realised how creepy it was. Unless you’re a politician.
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My new all-purpose conversation opener is: “is this latest rash of killer tornados sweeping the south a sign of the impending rapture, or God’s punishment of evangelical Christians?” It’s about the weather, so it can’t go wrong.
I agree with the asking questions–unless they are too pointed, it’s usually hard to be too offensive with an open ended question. (Though, you can take this too far. I was having, IMO, a nice conversation with a cousin I rarely see in which I was asking her many questions, and finally my aunt (our mutual aunt) turned to me and said in a joking fashion, “so when is the interrogation going to finish?” I have since tried to tone it down a bit.) I also think keeping in mind your audience is important. Thinking about Amy P’s point vs. Wendy’s point, it’s possible to be insensitive or offensive in either way. If you discuss things that others can’t afford blithely, you come off as insensitive. If you assume that the person you’re talking to can’t afford/understand your sophisticated life style, people take offense and see you as condescending. I’m not sure what’s the best way to deal with that, beyond reading the person (which may or may not work.)
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In my experience, you can always insult the Pennsylvania state legislature or PennDOT without any fear of offending somebody who isn’t actually a member of the PA legislature or an employee of PennDOT.
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I had to argue with my eldest, interminably, it seemed about table manners. “But mom, they are totally arbitrary!”
In the end, the argument that impressed him was this one. “Yes, son, table manners are indeed arbitrary. They exist for a reason, though. It’s so that people know what to expect from other people’s behavior around food. If you do not learn these rules, and observe them, people will perceive what you are doing with your food at mealtime to be strange and unpredictable. Which means they will be WAY too distracted by what you are doing to pay attention to the entertaining gems you are sharing with your words.”
The other thing that totally worked for him was the saying “A gentleman is never unintentionally rude.” He loved the subversiveness implied — that there do exist times when one might consciously CHOOSE to be rude. But it also made sense to him that there’s a difference between being subversive, and being a doofus who never learned the rules in the first place.
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