The kids are off from school for two days for the New Jersey State Teachers' Association meeting. It would be nice, if his teachers actually went to the meeting. [Insert eye roll.]
Jonah slept until 8:30 today. He's 11 years old now, so his body is moving into the rhythms of a teenager. This is the kid who was up at 5:30 every morning for years. I actually have to wake him up for school in the morning. Five years ago, I couldn't have imagined waking up a kid in the morning, and now we're here.
As some of you noticed from the tweets, we had a real estate agent over to give us a price on the house. We're toying with the idea of moving. We're moving-curious.
What did the real estate agent say? Well, all the funky things that we love about our house — the high ceilings, the big windows with original glass, the 100-year old door, exposed brick, the front porch, the moldings — yeah, nobody else cares about those things. All the people want is a family room to watch a big-assed TV and lots of places to pee. Since we only have a living room and 1-1/2 baths, we aren't going to get much for the house. She said we'll probably lose a lot of money, but it will be okay if we move to a bigger home in the same area, because all homes took a big hit.
So, we're very curious if the grass is indeed greener in other towns and grilling our friends who live in communities that are the short list. Last night, we met with some friends in a very swanky suburb. Their schools teach Latin to middle school kids, offer open gradebooks, and let the parents volunteer in the schools. They also said that the parents drink so much that they carted around kegs in little wagons while trick or treating with the kids. It's very John Cheever.
In addition to fact gathering, I'm entertaining the kiddos. Today, lunch at IKEA (kiddies love meatballs), sneakers at Sports Authority, and Mega Mind at the mall.
Apt. 11d 
We just got an extension for our rental until summer 2012, although half the neighborhood will go under the bulldozer next summer. As my neighbor said (heartlessly, but factually), it will be nice to have a big green space in front of the house for the kids to play on. The college is always bulldozing something.
We just got word that there are going to be two houses for sale in the other faculty/staff neighborhood. There are a lot of strings attached (the college owns the land itself and may in a few decades repeat what it did with our neighborhood), but it is so convenient and such a nice neighborhood that I am also in danger of paying too much. The minuses are no land, few kids, no good public school, the college brass band practicing across the street almost every afternoon, and stadium crowds walking through on their way to their cars after games. The pluses are no commute for my husband (and hence no pressing need for a second car), a tidy, safe-feeling neighborhood, residency limited to faculty and higher staff, and a generous going-away package from the college if they decide to bulldoze it. Currently, the neighborhood has almost no kids, but I have the feeling that the neighborhood is turning over (as the elderly original residents move on to assisted living and their eternal reward). I saw a house yesterday and turned it down as being too small, but the owners of a slightly larger one called me a couple days ago (I’ve flyered their neighborhood twice and plan to keep doing so twice a year). We’ll have to wait a while while they house-hunt, but we’ve got our extension.
I’ve heard predictions that the bottom of the market won’t be for another two years or so. In Laura’s case, I’ve heard that this is an excellent time for trading up.
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I’d like those features of your house, except the bathroom part. As the kids get bigger and need showers every day and just more time, that will be a real crunch with 4 people, I think. But I’d also be a bit skeptical of the agent- many of them are not super smart and work on volume, but I suspect you could find one that does things differently and would do well for the house.
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Good house hunting. I think it’s fun, and would eagerly read any vicarious visits.
Moldings, high ceilings, and 100 year old glass are quite popular around here, in the city, and people definitely trade those features for space, land and views. We live in a well-renovated 40’s house, where the ceilings are not high, but the renovators added moldings and columns to imitate older style houses.
We do have loads of bathrooms, and they definitely are a selling point of the house. It’s interesting, actually. I think people get finicky, in fairly obsessive ways, about bathrooms. Once you’ve stopped sharing a bathroom with kids, it’s hard to start again. And, others feel the same way about sharing with a spouse. I had a conversation with a friend about boats, who didn’t understand why anyone would waste space on a boat for two heads. But, if you never share a bathroom, it’s hard to share one, even on a boat.
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Why are kids off school right now? Ours are off for 2.5 days for parent teacher conferences right now. Yours are off, too. I’m guessing there’s something about this point in the schedule that makes everyone need a break. My kids definitely need one right about now.
I know that part of the breaks is the trade of comp for time off, but why at this particular time? I think it has something to do with the darkening days and people getting frazzled.
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Open gradebooks?
And, I’d be more concerned about whether the kids learn Latin, rather than whether it’s taught. We had Spanish in K-3, but we have little evidence of learning (though that seems to be changing in 4th). And the “progress reports” always came back with “wow, your kid is stellar”, so it presumably isn’t just my kid who wasn’t learning.
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I think the realtor is right. Not necessarily that people don’t like high ceilings (!) or leaded glass, but that you can’t expect to get out what you put into a house.
When we were hunting last year, the three houses that were became serious about had all been purchased in the past five years. (Not flippers: one was happily transfered, one lost his job and had to move, and another couple was having their third child and decided that five bedrooms were no longer sufficient!) This is very unusual; more often than not in Pittsburgh, a large house in a good neighborhood that goes up for sale is owned by an elderly couple who has been their since the 60s (and paying only 1/4 of what they should be in property taxes, but that’s another matter…).
Anyway, the house we ended up with was actually my third favorite, because the other two could not wrap their heads around the idea that we were not going to pay what they had paid three years ago + what they had put into the house. One woman spent an ungodly amount on (among other things) a really high end berber for the carpeted parts of the house — something like $30k. She was furious that we didn’t want to pay for it. “Don’t they think it’s gorgeous?” she’d ask my realtor. “Yes, they think it’s beautiful.” “Don’t they realize how long it will last and that it has a warranty?” “Yes, they are aware of that.” “So what is their offer?” Repeat this for her new, very high end but f’ing Tuscan kitchen (shudder), a massive deck that would be more upkeep than enjoyment, etc. “They are still not going above [what the owner paid plus $15k].” They were all lovely upgrades, but they weren’t exactly what we would have done so we had no interest in paying for them.
No one else would pay it, either. We took the third house because the owners faced reality the quickest, but I was right about the other two. One took 9 months to sell at what they’d paid plus $10k, the other is still on the market.
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I think the realtor is generally right — if you are going to sell a house, and then buy another house, it doesn’t really matter if it’s a “buyer’s market” or a “seller’s market.” Also, you can never really tell.
When we bought in 2002, it “felt” like we were on the top of the housing bubble. We felt like complete morons for offering $40K more than the owners had paid just 2 years earlier. “Well,” we though, “we’re not planning on moving anytime soon, so it won’t matter much that we bought at the top of the bubble.” Since then, the bubble bubbled even higher, and then crashed (but not anywhere close to 2002 prices).
Turned out, it wasn’t the seller’s market we thought it was.
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“Don’t they think it’s gorgeous?” she’d ask my realtor. “Yes, they think it’s beautiful.”
My mom had that same love for the house that she lived sold about 5 years ago, and still complains about the buyers, and how they didn’t appreciate her house (even using foreign curse words; it’s kind of funny). In her case, though, it’s not that she thought she should get back all the costs of her great renovations (there weren’t really any), but that she just loved the house and the memories (and those, surely, aren’t worth anything to the next buyers).
We bought a new house when I was pregnant with my second, and I found myself completely unwilling to let go of our first, and insisted that we keep it for a good 6+ months before I was willing to sell. Everyone teased me about how I wanted to keep a very expensive souvenir of my first child’s babyhood (it was the first house we owned). We did sell the house, though, and I have survived the loss of the souvenir.
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Zillow places our house value at roughly what we paid for it, in 2003. We’re going to find out more soon because a comp is up for sale across the street.
We’re not looking to sell, though, so none of it really matters.
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Last April we sold our mid-50’s era home that we had renovated in 2004. It hadn’t been touched beyond a 1970’s kitchen from when it was built. Lots of families, 50′ lots, good schools, brick homes. Very homey but on the subway line.
We moved 2 subway stops south to a Victorian era ‘hood at the edge of the university. We now own an 1890’s semi that is currently tenanted (we rent another one across the street to live in) that we are in the process of planning to renovate. Mostly updates rather than a full on back to the studs. And it has the high ceilings and original glass like Laura’s place.
The current ‘hood is only a few streets by a few streets. The girl’s school is a few blocks away. Families, professors, students, and artists. Walking distance to museums, etc. Much more urban but not too gritty.
Very happy to be back in a walking neighbourhood – lots of people on the street. I think there must be an inverse relationship between lot size and street activity. In the old 50’ lot ‘hood, everyone was in cars and few walked around. Hard to bump into anyone and chat. This ‘hood feels like a small village.
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And that was a long-winded way of saying, “buying/selling a house can’t always be about pure dollars and cents”. Some people thought we were crazy to go through the hassle to be only 2 subway stops south but it is a different world and a ‘hood that suits our little family so much more.
We made money on the sale but we also paid more for what we have now.
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Maybe you can be a recession success story like us–we were obliged to move to keep the kid in her good school program, but the housing depression meant the neighborhood of the school, which would have been actually unaffordable a year or two ago, was finally within our means. I saw on Zillow the other day that they’re still valuing our new house at almost 100K more than we bought it for.
That said, we are renting the old place and aren’t that optimistic about selling it in this market.
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“Last night, we met with some friends in a very swanky suburb. Their schools teach Latin to middle school kids, offer open gradebooks, and let the parents volunteer in the schools. They also said that the parents drink so much that they carted around kegs in little wagons while trick or treating with the kids. It’s very John Cheever.”
Welcome to Barrington, RI. That town freaks me the hell out. We need to stay in MA anyway because of the whole SpEd sitch. Apparently RI is a nightmare.
I suppose now is not the time to mention we’re probably paying off our mortgage this coming year. I’m starting to look at other houses (we might rent out this one for a while). My former realtor, whom I mentioned this to at Halloween (our kids go trick or treating together) is already grooming me.
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My former realtor, whom I mentioned this to at Halloween (our kids go trick or treating together) is already grooming me.
I’ve heard that lots of realtors are switching careers.
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“I’ve heard that lots of realtors are switching careers.”
And they should be. I’m really waiting for Zillow & Redfin to collapse the whole business. It has happened yet, but it should be. I’m not exactly sure what the role of a traditional realtor is in that environment.
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From the prices I see around my street, putting in a basic kitchen (that is, replacing a 1980 or earlier kitchen) will probably get you 70% to 100% back on resale. Same with putting in some basic hardwood floors, especially if you’re removing shag carpet. At least, I’ve seen a fixed-up house go for 30% more than a nearly identical house unrenovated since 1979 and the unrenovated place had a bigger garage. Probably this is because my area is mostly entry level (for professional couples) houses and at that level, nobody is personalizing much. They are going to Restoration Hardware for ideas and some trim, but actually buying the kitchen at Lowes or Sears. The relatively few big houses in my area are harder to price.
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Welcome to Barrington, RI.
So I Googled expecting to find a tasteful, well-designed municipal site, and was instead greeted by this!
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You should see the web sites for Lyme, Connecticut and Papilloma, Delaware.
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Try this.
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Fascinating discussion. We were very lucky with our last house — in spite of the fact that we lost ALL our lifesavings. We knew when we bought it that it would be a sure thing to sell it because it was in really bad shape, but had great potential: really great neighborhood with older houses and huge level lots, beautiful hardwood floors under old carpeting, three full baths (we only redid one, but the second one was in pretty good shape), a kitchen that needed full updating (which we did).
We just didn’t expect to have to replace the roof (we knew that it needed new siding). Anyway… when you posted your renovation photos I really wanted to go post mine, but I’ll have to let more time pass… I still don’t think about that house, ever. And I don’t feel anything about it, but I don’t want to revisit it again just yet.
I’ll be curious to know what you’ll decide!
Whether your realtor is right or not, I don’t know. It depends on the type of buyer she’s used to! We may be buying soon too. At least I hope so.
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They also said that the parents drink so much that they carted around kegs in little wagons while trick or treating with the kids. It’s very John Cheever.
Fascinating. Of course, you don’t have to hang out with the drunks.
On the bright side, if nobody else cares about houses with personality, that means a house you could love may be more reasonably priced than one with multiple bathrooms and a home theater.
Do you have the courage to buy a house in foreclosure? Would you consider renting? One only cares (to a manic degree) about the education premium in a district until one’s youngest child’s senior year in high school.
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Do you have the courage to buy a house in foreclosure?
There don’t seem to be many foreclosures in my area (prices haven’t dropped), but I’d certainly be afraid to buy one until I had more confidence that the bank was selling a clear title.
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Foreclosures are tricky, I’ve heard. They involve a lot of paperwork and patience.
It’s really too bad that we might leave this house. It’s just perfect for us. If we could helicopter the house to a different town, we would be very happy.
Nothing is certain right now. We have a little window of opportunity and it would be foolish not to explore all the possibilities. In another year, Jonah will be too old and too traumatized to move. It’s this spring or never.
We’re not going to move far. Just ten minutes in one direction or another, but it’s like we’re moving across the country. In this area of the country, each town is its own continent — different cultures and norms, and people don’t venture far past their borders. It actually involves lots of research. Which is fine. I love research.
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It can be hard to figure out what’s in foreclosure. I found a site while looking for foreclosure heat maps, hotpads “dot” com. It does list the Big foreclosure in our town.
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It can be hard to figure out what’s in foreclosure.
That it can. Locally, I think there are more Craigslist ads listing houses they say are foreclosures than there are houses that the official stats say have been foreclosed upon.
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MH,
Maybe the deal is that foreclosure is a process, and that the official stats only register the homes that have actually gone back to the bank, rather than the ones that are in the foreclosure pipeline.
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“They also said that the parents drink so much that they carted around kegs in little wagons while trick or treating with the kids. It’s very John Cheever.”
that happens in the neighborhoods my kids trick-or-treat in, and it’s not ’cause the folks are drunks. It’s that they combine the kids’ party with the grown-ups party (and that involves some alcohol). I haven’t seen it in excess, though, of course, I’m sure there are probably are some closet drunks in the mix.
We had the opposite problem from you Laura — we loved our neighborhood, but the house just didn’t accommodate us (a bit too small, and old, which combined poorly with our complete lack of handy man skills). We moved, and had to trade off the great neighborhood for the great house. But, our new neighborhood has its advantages, too, as will a new house in the right neighborhood.
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Amy P, most of the ads I’m speaking of are scam artists. Some a realtors looking to for business.
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MH,
Interesting. We haven’t seen that around here, so far. Our Craigslist has suddenly been flooded with lease-to-buy real estate schemes that look very scammy, although I haven’t investigated enough to be sure–I just don’t trust anything with that many moving parts, or that is getting pushed so hard. I’ve also seen people on Craigslist attempting to rent out a house that didn’t belong to them (the real homeowners ran a counter-ad saying that their house is not for sale).
Speaking of real estate scams, I was talking to one of my Washington relatives recently and she had recently been doing business with a guy in financial trouble (looming foreclosure, missed payments on equipment, etc.) who had just attended a real estate seminar where they promise to help you sue your way out of a foreclosure for $2500 up front. The seminar people told the distressed homeowner that the guy running the seminar was a disbarred lawyer and had just gotten out of prison, making it almost sound like a credential. When it’s so open, it’s almost not a scam.
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yeah, you should definitely explore and research and if it seems the right thing to do, take advantage of your “window of opportunity.” & obviously I like doing research too! 😉
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“‘I’ve heard that lots of realtors are switching careers.’
And they should be. I’m really waiting for Zillow & Redfin to collapse the whole business. It has happened yet, but it should be. I’m not exactly sure what the role of a traditional realtor is in that environment.”
Fortunately for my wife, the buyers agent, lots of realtors are leaving the business. More work for her.
Her role is to get fundamentally irrational people to act rationally which no amount of web-based gadgets for pricing and comping can do. And her turf is city and old suburbs so the comps are more complicated than in cookie-cutter suburbs or city. Zillow ain’t gonna price anything right on my street which has an apartment building, two twins, and row homes just on one side. The other side has twins and singles (including an eight-bedroom mansion). Ain’t no algorithm for that mix.
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